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Dave...dickhead here...even in those days the grounds had crowd limits and safety assessments.Any Liverpool fan WITHOUT a precious semi-final ticket who took the opportunity afforded them by twatty plod to rush in to that ground shares the blame for this.Bleat on about stupid cover ups,stich ups,cock ups etc etc but they know they are and they have a deep dark secret they will take to their graves.The sound of animated earnest scousers blaming all and sundry and not acknowledging any blame makes me sick.

On the phone this morning to a Scouse colleague who said he had hoped yesterday's revelations would offer some closure. He was genuinely disappointed that the whole thing is going to be dug over again. Like many Liverpool fans he sees the 96'ers as a bit of an annoying sideshow.

How many other innocent people have these scumbag police stitched up????

Bankers, Police, Politicians too many of them it seems are bent.

David:

I am afraid you are banging your head against a brick wall. If someone refuses to accept the facts derived from a painstaking investigation, then there is no point arguing with them. For some people it is just easier to believe that foorball fans are drunken scum than that the police could fail in their most vital role, and then conspire at the highest level to cover it up.

And you who refuses to gain the facts, and just hates scousers make me sick. How many times? Fans always turn up, even today trying to blag tickets, regardless of the clubs involved. They did not rush the gates, look at the cctv. If you were in that crowd being herded as they were, could you have escaped??

But that's the kind of attitude we've been arguing against for the past 23 years... and they still won't accept the truth.

If that is your conclusion from all this I can only feel sorry for you. Taking the blinkers off, reading facts and not believing bullshit might help you in your struggle to see and accept the truth !

You probably can't though.

SHAME !

Now you are being extremely silly.

I have explained to you how inquiries work with dissenting voices.

I have explained to you how more than half the panel don't have any connection with Liverpool and include for example, a former Chief Constable. Even if they do have some connection with Liverpool, so what?

"Are you denying that if Cameron set up an "independent" inquiry into something and put four of his Eton chums on the panel (with one of them chairing it) you wouldn't be straight on here howling him down in derision and pouring scorn on him"

Have I missed something? Did the Bishop of Liverpool go to school with the Hillsborough families?

I have explained to you how the independent panel report re-states the main finding of the Taylor report i.e. that it was not the Liverpool fans that caused the disaster but the overwhelming factor was crowd control.

And surprise, surprise, despite coming up with the same main result as the independent panel report, Lord Justice Taylor wasn't a scouser!!!!

I will leave you to come up with some equally silly explanation why Taylor "whitewashed" the Liverpool fans' responsibility out of his report.

David Johnson wrote:

[quote]I have explained to you how inquiries work with dissenting voices [/quote]

I know how they work David. So presumably you'd be completely happy with Cameron appointing an "independent" inquiry partly made up of Eton toffs would you, and with the findings of such a committee?

Why not just answer the question straight, instead of trying to be evasive and "clever"?

So I ask you again - would you or wouldn't you support Cameron appointing an inquiry whose members included four Old Etonians, and would you unequivocally accept the findings of such an inquiry? After all, shouldn't be a problem, what with the other dissenting voices should it?

A straight Yes or No will do.


David Johnson wrote:

[quote]Even if they do have some connection with Liverpool, so what?[/quote]


And there you are calling me silly. !laugh!

You cannot be serious.

Let's just suppose (for argument's sake) that some pissed-up / ticketless (or whatever) Liverpool supporters were a contributory factor - even just a minor one. Can you really see the Bishop of fucking Liverpool daring to come out and say this to his congregation?

If they had REALLY wanted this inquiry to be truly "independent", it should have consisted of people who had absolutely no personal attachment to Liverpool whatsoever.

You seem to have tremendous faith that the contents of any official report are, by definition, going to be immune to any prejudice, bias or selectivity.

The findings of the report are probably fine as far as they go. But as I said earlier in the thread, none of the panel members is going to want to be seen as the next Kelvin McKenzie.

Because given the magnitude and intensity of abuse meted out in that city over the past 20 odd years to anyone willing to so much as suggest that some Liverpool supporters might have been anything less than whiter than white in Sheffield that day, or even for merely being "insensitive" over Hillsborough (up to and including death threats against Alan Davies), how likely do you think it was that the panel was ever going to address that particular aspect of the disaster fully, transparently and honestly?

I notice you also fail to answer my question about whether you're high-handed moral indignation over Hillsborough really is motivated by empathy for the bereaved families, or is it politically driven?

How about answering that question as well, David.

- Eric

"I know how they work David. So presumably you'd be completely happy with Cameron appointing an "independent" inquiry partly made up of Eton toffs would you, and with the findings of such a committee?"

Do I have to answer the same question in every post? I couldnt care less if some of the members of the independent panel. Just as I couldn't care less if some of the people involved in an inquiry into the London riots came from London. Just as I couldn't care less if some people who were Eton educated were asked by the Prime Minister to do a report on MP expenses.

"Let's just suppose (for argument's sake) that some pissed-up / ticketless (or whatever) Liverpool supporters were a contributory factor - even just a minor one. Can you really see the Bishop of fucking Liverpool daring to come out and say this to his congregation? "

Yes. And to repeat yet again because you still havent got it. This time in CAPS. THE INDEPENDENT PANEL REPORT ENDORSES THE TAYLOR REPORT I.E THAT THE LIVERPOOL FANS DID NOT CAUSE THE DISASTER AND THAT THE CAUSE OF THE DISASTER WAS PISS POOR CROWD CONTROL. SO GIVEN TAYLOR WASNT A SCOUSER, PERHAPS YOU CAN COME UP WITH A SILLY LITTLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHY TAYLOR "WHITEWASHED" LIVERPOOL FANS INVOLVEMENT OUT OF THE REPORT. HOW ABOUT ANSWERING THAT ONE IF YOU CAN ERIC AND GIVE US ALL A GOOD LAUGH.

"I notice you also fail to answer my question about whether you're high-handed moral indignation over Hillsborough really is motivated by empathy for the bereaved families, or is it politically driven?"

Oh you ask search searching questions, Very Flat ERic. Because the Hillsborough families were right all along and the police, the Sun and people like you were wrong and it took 23 years for the full enormity of the police cover up to come out.

Now run along. I am tired of reading your fourth rate posts.