Re: Disillusioned with the Industry
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:08 pm
Emily wrote:
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"To be fair, Dave, it's a matter of context
As a rule, any photographer who can't control himself and has to ask a model whether there might be sex on the cards is, in my book, unprofessional. I don't honestly care if there are 50,000 models who escort to 50 models who don't, the fact is that a photo shoot is a photo shoot is a photo shoot. If you're going to hire an escort, contact one. There are plenty available. There's no excuse for contacting some unsuspecting model and asking her if she's also a prostitute.
And I would hope that any well-adjusted, normal human being, if he really 'fancied the pants' off a model would at least have the decency to ask a model out for a drink or two, maybe dinner and so on, if he really wanted to get busy with her. But, you know, only after he had spent the shoot behaving like a gentleman.
Because you know what? This might be a sex-based industry, and there might be a lot of nudity and penetration and what have you, but at the end of the day we're all still supposed to be decent civilised human beings, and just because a minority of models escort (yes, it is a minority) doesn't mean that we should all become cynical and jaded about the whole thing."
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Emily, you have made some very good points there....and on reflection i think you are correct - a photo shoot is a photo shoot is a photo shoot, and business shouldnt mix with other pleasures on that count......I stand corrected!
Your reasonings in your posts on this thread are sound in that - when you are employed as an adult performer you should be treated as such and not as a potential prostitute. I dont think anybody can argue with that.....and youve certainly made me think a little about seeing things from the other point of view.
But (you just knew there would be a but didnt you lol)
But - as with many things there are two side to a coin.
I think The Brutal Truth has just made an excellent observation about things being a mater of justification.
You have said you have no issue with escorting/prostitution as such - and thats cool - but if you are really honest im sure you would agree, that privately you wouldnt want to be thought of as one - not just because you arent one - but also because of the social stigma and your own private reasons. The same with a page 3 model. She might not slag you off for doing toy insertions or hard girl/girl, but privately she is likely to think........"well i would never do that".............so what one person thinks is okay is not to another, its all relative - but as the Brutal Truth says, its also down to justification.
We all want to justify our own conduct - but at the end of the day - getting ones kit off is part of the sex industry, and as such it carries a little social stigma to it.
My point is not so much that producers should have the right to ask whether a girl is available for other services (i have been put right on that one), but that models in general should BE CONSISTANT regarding what levels they are advertising they work up to. As i said before, its very confusing when you see a model listing up to continental only - and then discover she has done bits and here doing stronger stuff. Of course models retain the right to change their minds - to vary their levels of work from time to time- but they surely have some responsibility to be honest and upfront.
You are obviously ethically sound Emily, and im sure many others are too. However there are also MANY others who are not. Dodgy producers get bad press and quite right too. Newbie producers are often viewed with suspicion, and i guess thats natural too. But models who do bareback escorting - and then class themselves as "adult professionals" are doing the rest of you a disservice. You say escorts models are in the "minority" but i would have to dissagree. Ive not used the services of any escort models myself, but having looked at many of the websites on the net - then i would guess there are many more than you might think. Okay it might still be a minority - but if you are talking 20 - 30% as i suspect then you are dealing with a substantial percentage.
There is a website listed on here - that promotes porno models for hire(im assuming i cannot post the url).........i discovered just last week that this website has a sister website advertising most of the same girls (very very well known and established names) as offering escort services.
Nothing wrong with that from my point of view - but when you have so many of your fellow models - who sell sex - sorry but the terminology for that is prostitution..........then its kinda rich when some girls (not you) go on about pervy producers pestering them. ....(when many of these girls offer these same services on other websites)
Im not justifying these producers here - im simply stating that there is a lot of double standards amongst many porn models - and that as time carries on , and as i suspect more and more girls take up the option of moonlighting as both models/ and escorts then the lines will get muddied even further.
.
"To be fair, Dave, it's a matter of context
As a rule, any photographer who can't control himself and has to ask a model whether there might be sex on the cards is, in my book, unprofessional. I don't honestly care if there are 50,000 models who escort to 50 models who don't, the fact is that a photo shoot is a photo shoot is a photo shoot. If you're going to hire an escort, contact one. There are plenty available. There's no excuse for contacting some unsuspecting model and asking her if she's also a prostitute.
And I would hope that any well-adjusted, normal human being, if he really 'fancied the pants' off a model would at least have the decency to ask a model out for a drink or two, maybe dinner and so on, if he really wanted to get busy with her. But, you know, only after he had spent the shoot behaving like a gentleman.
Because you know what? This might be a sex-based industry, and there might be a lot of nudity and penetration and what have you, but at the end of the day we're all still supposed to be decent civilised human beings, and just because a minority of models escort (yes, it is a minority) doesn't mean that we should all become cynical and jaded about the whole thing."
............................................
............................................
Emily, you have made some very good points there....and on reflection i think you are correct - a photo shoot is a photo shoot is a photo shoot, and business shouldnt mix with other pleasures on that count......I stand corrected!
Your reasonings in your posts on this thread are sound in that - when you are employed as an adult performer you should be treated as such and not as a potential prostitute. I dont think anybody can argue with that.....and youve certainly made me think a little about seeing things from the other point of view.
But (you just knew there would be a but didnt you lol)
But - as with many things there are two side to a coin.
I think The Brutal Truth has just made an excellent observation about things being a mater of justification.
You have said you have no issue with escorting/prostitution as such - and thats cool - but if you are really honest im sure you would agree, that privately you wouldnt want to be thought of as one - not just because you arent one - but also because of the social stigma and your own private reasons. The same with a page 3 model. She might not slag you off for doing toy insertions or hard girl/girl, but privately she is likely to think........"well i would never do that".............so what one person thinks is okay is not to another, its all relative - but as the Brutal Truth says, its also down to justification.
We all want to justify our own conduct - but at the end of the day - getting ones kit off is part of the sex industry, and as such it carries a little social stigma to it.
My point is not so much that producers should have the right to ask whether a girl is available for other services (i have been put right on that one), but that models in general should BE CONSISTANT regarding what levels they are advertising they work up to. As i said before, its very confusing when you see a model listing up to continental only - and then discover she has done bits and here doing stronger stuff. Of course models retain the right to change their minds - to vary their levels of work from time to time- but they surely have some responsibility to be honest and upfront.
You are obviously ethically sound Emily, and im sure many others are too. However there are also MANY others who are not. Dodgy producers get bad press and quite right too. Newbie producers are often viewed with suspicion, and i guess thats natural too. But models who do bareback escorting - and then class themselves as "adult professionals" are doing the rest of you a disservice. You say escorts models are in the "minority" but i would have to dissagree. Ive not used the services of any escort models myself, but having looked at many of the websites on the net - then i would guess there are many more than you might think. Okay it might still be a minority - but if you are talking 20 - 30% as i suspect then you are dealing with a substantial percentage.
There is a website listed on here - that promotes porno models for hire(im assuming i cannot post the url).........i discovered just last week that this website has a sister website advertising most of the same girls (very very well known and established names) as offering escort services.
Nothing wrong with that from my point of view - but when you have so many of your fellow models - who sell sex - sorry but the terminology for that is prostitution..........then its kinda rich when some girls (not you) go on about pervy producers pestering them. ....(when many of these girls offer these same services on other websites)
Im not justifying these producers here - im simply stating that there is a lot of double standards amongst many porn models - and that as time carries on , and as i suspect more and more girls take up the option of moonlighting as both models/ and escorts then the lines will get muddied even further.