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[Bob Singleton]

MAI Productions wrote:

It does seem strange Joe that such objections to this film and those others of it's genre are suspiciously quiet this last week or so but were so prevalent before the girls comments explaining how much they were happy. Wouldnt you agree?

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So sorry... I didn't realise you wanted me to repeat myself!

A few people here said that the customer is always right and that content is customer driven.

I asked if enough customers wanted to see a girl having her fanny filled with quick drying cement, would they shoot it? I have yet to receive an answer to this question (I feel a little like Paxman faced with a former Tory Home Secretary!)

If your answer is "no" then plainly in your eyes the customer is actually "wrong" and content isn't customer driven. If the answer is "yes" then you seriously need to see someone for treatment.

So... what's the answer? Have you been lying to us all, or are you just sick?

[MAI Productions]

Bob,

You have been answered by both myself and **********. You seem to be incable of accepting anything anyone says other than your own point of view.

I will therefore refrain from replying to your ridiculous and quite obviously retarded questions any further

[Bob Singleton]

Actually Rob answered the question, but you havn't!

I refrained from posting more as I believed the thread had run its course (other than awaiting an apology from Rob for accusing me of being something I'm not), but you started it up again!

You say the girls are happy doing these scenes. Great... on the whole I've no problem in that respect. But we know from certain events in Germany a few years ago that one man was willing to be killed and eaten by his new found gay lover. Just because he was willing for this to happen to him, does it make it right that it did happen?

So when your customers ask you to film a girl having her pussy filled with quick drying cement and you find a girl willing to "explore her boundaries" in such a way, will you film it?

JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

I just want to know if you are a liar (when you say your content is customer driven and it proves not to be) or stupid (if you're prepared to allow your content to be customer driven and you go to greater extremes)

I want to know what limits you are prepared for OTHERS to go to, just to make a quick buck for yourself? And I'd like to hear YOUR justification for producing this type of film.

[MAI Productions]

Firstly Bob I didn't start this thread up again, If you look at the posts you will see that Miyah (who incidentally also performed in this film) explained her position on this film.

Anyway, to your point. Yes any commercial venture has to be driven by customer demand otherwise it ceases to be a commercial venture and becomes self indulgent. So my productions are driven by customers of course, as are any other producers films otherwise this wouldnt be a business but an ego trip. There is however no way that I would, or ever have endangered any member of the cast, crew, production team or anyone else involved in anything I do (this was also stated by Rob if you recall).

Where to draw the line? I really dont know. That is not for me to say other than that I would not in any way support anything abusive, dangerous or indeed in your point about cement and guns blatantly lethal.

You have seen from all the girls within this film posts stating how much of a great time they had on set, how well looked after they were, how it was a pleasure to work on this film yet you still continue to suggest this is in some way immoral.

I dont begrudge you your view, you are entitled to that of course, but your suggestions as to the ethics employed in making a film such as this are so way off the mark it is unbelievable.

Our last release, Donna's Dirty Dozen Part1, is selling very well but did not generate any of this controversy purely because it is not seen by many as extreme, however one of the scenes in that film includes DP which earlier comments in this thread suggested was exploiting the girls. My point there is where do you decide what is extreme and what isn't??

I think I have answered your question now wouldnt you agree?

[WhiteR]

Hi, just feel like i should mention that over the years murderers have pointed the blame to all kinds of things as an inspiration for their crimes. The Manson family apparently we're motivated by the Beatles 'Helter Skelter,' so should we also be seeking to ban popular music, or would it be more sensible to accept there are people out there who are just nutters and will murder, rape, abuse regardless, looking to point blame in order to detract from their own insanity? You decide.

Like I said, I?m not a fan of certain areas of porn, but I don't believe in over-the-top censorship either. I think people involved in the adult industry should keep such views to themselves and not advertise their distain for others' work in such a public forum.

[Officer Dibble]

Suggesting that people should not air their views in a public forum seems a very odd thing to say indeed. And further, suggesting that industry people (who know a bit more about these things) should especially bite their lip seems even odder. What are public forums for if not for the expressing of views? Are you suggesting that only people who have bland, backslapping, things to say should be given a voice? A little earlier you were decrying censorship!


Officer Dibble ? can?t get his breath

[WhiteR]

Just to clear things up, I?m fine with people criticising others' work, that's why producers offer it up for discussion in these forums. But, my point (although previously ill-made) was that I find it a little crazy that people in my eyes appear to be calling for tighter censorship by making this particular trailer so controversial. People in the industry have a hard enough time struggling with restrictive laws that hinder producers abilities to take porn further and make it different from what?s already out there. Now, I remember around a year ago someone offered up a link to a Scottish Parliament debate (as far as I recollect), which appeared to want to ban everything! When a collective of adult professionals appear to get together in agreement that we need further censorship I?m quite startled.

[Officer Dibble]

I don't recall anyone advocating censorship - just people suggesting that producers (and performers) should maybe show a little more responsibility in what they lay before us, as this kind of thing might encourage the divis and deviants in our society to believe that women in general were dirty slutts ?n? slapps to be roughly used and abused, not to mention, slapped. It might also encourage impressionable young girls to slip into that demeaning role, believing that was what society expected of them or that it was a cool and fashionable thing to do. It seems to me that the effect of this kind of material on our society is just another one of the many negative elements contributing to the current dumbing down and devaluing of human dignity and contemporary culture (jeez, I hope that doesn't sound to pompous).

Hey, there?s always room for power games, kinkiness, and fantasy scenarios in sexual relations. Great. We are well aware of what they are, there?s nothing new under the sun. But this kind of thing is one step beyond, because to me, it?s superfluous, nothing much to do with sex. Yes, sex. Remember that?...you know, fucking and sucking. To me this kind of thing is just a self indulgent (though very well produced) circus of the grotesque. So what if a few weirdoes do like it? Should we indulge them?

The work in question seems to be of a technically high calibre, and as I said before, I believe it is valid. But I see it as a pure work of art, something the reflects our society?s value free affluence and it?s seeming decline into cultural and moral decadence.


Officer Dibble

[Dickie Davies]

There is a line in the sand that, I personally believe, porn should not cross. However, I'm with Dibble - art is slightly different, with different arguments. This particular video may have a better chance as an art film.

In the UK, what is and isn't allowed is pretty clearly defined and all of us will be thankful that you can buy a DVD of people fucking legally in the UK. For readers under 24 or so, this is a major advance.

Where next is the question - personally I am the sort of person Luke Ford hates - I just want to see well filmed videos of good looking girls getting shagged.

BGAFD started because some UK girls who did soft stuff here went abroad to do hardcore. Leaning on my Zimmer frame here, there wasn't much that was better than discovering, out of the blue - and usually in an Amsterdam porn shop - that a great UK softcore model was doing hardcore in Europe. Louise Hodges, even Linzi Drew, come to mind in particular.

A few years on, some aspects of UK porn - this video being the one we have latched on to - want to go down the American road of more extreme stuff.

I can see why - but I personally hope the BBFC has a lot to say about it.

All of us will accept that there is a limit to what is acceptable - being extreme, someone who uses a willing fourteen year old will quickly be banged up with all of our strong support. Where is the line, that is the question?

I mentioned in an earlier reply about the market for seeing girls being sick. As I think most people know, there is a market for seeing girls having a crap too. Me and many others like seeing a girl having a pee - ask Americans and many seem to hate it.

So it's not a case of "anything goes" or even what a girl will do and a producer can sell, is OK- if it was, poo films would be OK and, sorry, I would join Daily **** readers in objecting to this.

This has been a really good debate but I think those who want to go "extreme" should appreciate that if they are getting a hard time here, that is nothing on what they might get "outside", especially among those people who still think porn is banned in the UK.



WhiteR writes

Just to clear things up, I?m fine with people criticising others' work, that's why producers offer it up for discussion in these forums. But, my point (although previously ill-made) was that I find it a little crazy that people in my eyes appear to be calling for tighter censorship by making this particular trailer so controversial. People in the industry have a hard enough time struggling with restrictive laws that hinder producers abilities to take porn further and make it different from what?s already out there. Now, I remember around a year ago someone offered up a link to a Scottish Parliament debate (as far as I recollect), which appeared to want to ban everything! When a collective of adult professionals appear to get together in agreement that we need further censorship I?m quite startled.