Scottish independence betting

[william]

Hell bankrupt ? how many go bankrupt and start with a fresh sheet ? One way to get rid of your debts and start afresh.....

Amazing how they have all bricked it when the polls shows a scottish lead ? good bye oil - and now today the oil company are saying that there isnt as much oil yeah you believe them ? I dont. I think they want that to be in peoples minds just so they dont vote yes.

A yes vote ? That would make oil compaines shudder as they would need to comply with the scottish incometax and all that would affect the profit margins and would also affect them with the west coast reserves.

[JamesW]

Arginald Valleywater wrote:

> Iceland. The only nation in
> history to go bankrupt.


You might want to reconsider the word 'only'.

Maybe 'one of the many' would be more appropriate.

[Arginald Valleywater]

I chuckle to think McSalmond is going to bully the likes of Shell, BP and Exxon.....they could buy Scotland for cash. I had a quick look through the FTSE top 100 and the lack of Scottish mega corps is quite alarming. Where exactly will he get all his revenues from? Surely not raising taxes?

[David Johnson]

Just a few questions/points of clarification.

Ravenscraig

So given the level of devolution that Scotland already has, what exactly has Salmond done in the last 7 or so years to bring heavy industry back to Scotland?

Trident

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Salmond keen for an independent Scotland to be a member of Nato? He would prefer Trident not to be on Scottish terrirtory, but I assume that by being a member of Nato he is buying in to the concept of nuclear deterrence. THe only difference is that the Nato nuclear button would be pressed in another country. Some might argue that this is hypocritical. I could not possibly comment.

Bedroom Tax

A pernicious tax introduced by Tory scum and supported by the Lib Dems. Having said that didn't Salmond vote against the 50% income tax rate, the introduction of a tax on bankers bonuses. In addition the only tax he has promised to change is the corporation tax by lowering it 3p. That should be great for changing Scotland's approach to the less well off, eh?
Austerity

Well, Salmond has had tax raising powers for a number of years but has never used them. Scottish government is so much easier when you do next nothing apart from blaming everything on Westminster.

The countless mines

Did I miss all the mines that Salmond has reopened in the last 7 years as a result of revenue generating activities?

NHS

The Institute for Fiscal Studies, an independent body, revealed that Salmond's government was planning cuts in health spending even though NHS budgets are rising in England, directly challenging one of the yes campaign's most successful arguments with voters.

Pensions

Yes, exactly how is Salmond going to pay for pensions?

[alicia_fan_uk]

Hello.


>Ravenscraig: What exactly has Salmond done in the last 7 or so years to bring heavy industry back to Scotland?

Nothing much which has led to a great revival. But I direct you towards Porter's Five Forces.

>Trident: I assume that by being a member of Nato he is buying in to the concept of nuclear deterrence. Some might argue that this is hypocritical. I could not possibly comment.

As you say, that's an assumption on your part. Just like me assuming your "some might argue..." comment has comedic rather disingenuous intent. The NATO website appears to suggest it offers much more than just an International WMD club. Maybe Salmond read the website and that helped persuade him?

>Bedroom Tax: A pernicious tax..............

Salmond's voting record on tax matters isn't above criticism. It clearly doesn't align with your ideology. Fair enough. However, his Scottish Government has acted to offset the impact of the bedroom tax in Scotland, having to divert funds from other areas to do so (whilst also getting a reduced block grant from the UK: is this one of many examples of why you call it a "pernicious tax"?).

>Austerity: Well, Salmond has had tax raising powers for a number of years but has never used them. Scottish government is so much easier when you do next nothing apart from blaming everything on Westminster.

Factual comment on sentence one. Open to interpretation on sentence two. The NHS in Scotland is a very different thing to in England. Ditto HE funding. Further, Welfare is a reserved matter so Scottish powers are somewhat indirect (eg see Bedroom Tax workaround, above).

>The countless mines: Did I miss all the mines that Salmond has reopened in the last 7 years as a result of revenue generating activities?

No, you did not miss that. Further, see above re Porter's Five Forces. The issue is also more nuanced. Many communities are still dealing with what some may call the legacy of devastation from Mrs Thatcher's Govt actions. Of course, I couldn't possibly comment...

>NHS: The IFS...SG planning cuts in health spending even though NHS budgets are rising in England, directly challenging one of the yes campaign's most successful arguments with voters.

I presume you refer to this http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7366 . Fair comment. However, do you really prefer the ideology, operating model, range of treatment guarantees, and private control & extent of PFI debts of the English NHS compared to the Scottish NHS? Some may; I don't believe your particular politics would lead you to.

>Pensions: How is Salmond going to pay for pensions?

With money. The pound. Or Euro. Or bitcoin. Or McGroat. Have a look into how UK funds its various pension obligations, and ways it's cut the previously-agreed level of benefits (unfunded liabilities, CPI/RPI uplift changes, other scheme rule changes). The argument then becomes more akin to which side is less dodgy. That's a contest with no real winner.

[Sam Slater]

Jesus Christ, man. Not seen you post here in ages.

Hope you're well!

[David Johnson]

"Nothing much which has led to a great revival. But I direct you towards Porter's Five Forces."

This confirms my point which is that there are other forces involved in a decision to close down factories, mines etc. and that it is not necessarily all Westminster's fault implied in William's comments.

"The NATO website appears to suggest it offers much more than just an International WMD club. Maybe Salmond read the website and that helped persuade him?"

This is a statement of the obvious. If Nato was merely about pressing the nuclear button, the recent Nato summit in Newport would not have agreed to setting up a rapid response unit.

Salmond has indicated his determination to join Nato as an independent country.

General Sir Richard Shirreff, who has just stepped down as Nato's deputy supreme allied commander Europe stated -

"As for the nuclear issue, Nato is a nuclear-armed alliance and all Nato states must accept the principle of nuclear deterrence and being part of the Nato nuclear command and control system."

"However, his Scottish Government has acted to offset the impact of the bedroom tax in Scotland, having to divert funds from other areas to do so"

Whilst refusing to increase income tax to pay for increased government spending to help the less well off.

"The NHS in Scotland is a very different thing to in England. Ditto HE funding."

I know. That is the point.

"The NHS in Scotland is a very different thing to in England. Ditto HE funding. "

I know that is the point. There are other factors at play, not just William's blaming everything on Westminster.

"Fair comment. However, do you really prefer the ideology, operating model, range of treatment guarantees, and private control & extent of PFI debts of the English NHS compared to the Scottish NHS?"

No I do not approve the Tory model. I was against PFI under Labour but in favour of using private providers to keep waiting lists down, if required. However Salmond has yet to address why he thinks cutting NHS spending according to the IFS and not using his tax raising powers to help fund the NHS is a helpful approach. Again Salmond prefers to blame everything on Westminster even if the NHS is a devolved power and he has had tax raising powers.

[alicia_fan_uk]

Hello again. Twice in one day.

Sam:
Yes, I'm good thanks. I hope you are well. Like most of my fantasy football selections, I've just been sitting out on the sidelines.


David:

Mines/factories: The point I replied to was your questioning of Salmond's response/lack of revival. Resolving the decades-old dispute over the different question of who played what part in the decline, and to what extent, is a fool's errand which I do not plan to embark on here.

NATO: I note you find my statement obvious. I wrote it as I didn't perceive it as obvious from what was written before. Most members of NATO don't have nuclear WMDs. I have no idea exactly where each stands on the love/hate WMD spectrum. However (for example) Norway is a NATO member but wants to ban all nuclear weapons globally. So, presumably, some may reasonably infer the quoted theory of General Sir Richard Shirreff translates to empty rhetoric in reality.

Salmond's/William's "blaming everything on Westminster"/ your comment "Scottish government is so much easier when you do next nothing apart from blaming everything on Westminster": With Salmond, he'll get stuck into Westminster when it suits him. Sometimes unnecessarily and unfairly so (the perceived extent of which is dependent on your politics). Anyone claiming he blames Westminster for everything is writing cheques that the evidence can't cash. It's a cynical overstatement worthy of a Daily Mail front page. It is as inappropriate as when Salmond does unfairly blame Westminster.

NHS/Tax trade off: Fair point. Best of luck seeking a straight answer, from a straight question, from this or most other politicians.

[David Johnson]

"Resolving the decades-old dispute over the different question of who played what part in the decline, and to what extent, is a fool's errand which I do not plan to embark on here."

I think we agree. There are other factors at play. That is the point. Ridding Scotland of Westminster influence will not necessarily change all those factors. I am not trying to resolve the "decades old dispute."

"Norway is a NATO member but wants to ban all nuclear weapons globally."

Governments often espouse an aim to "make poverty history". They don't necessarily do it. Norway may espouse an aim to ban all nuclear weapons globally. Joining an organisation which has a nuclear deterrent is not the best start unless you believe that the US might be enormously swayed by Norway's arguments. ANyway, Norway has already agreed, as have all Nato members that as long as nuclear weapons exist, Nato will be a nuclear alliance and this was confirmed in 2010.

"Anyone claiming he blames Westminster for everything is writing cheques that the evidence can't cash."

This is clearly a turn of phrase. Salmond does not blame Westminster when it rains. Salmond does not blame Westminster when the Scottish football team loses. To save ennui setting in, I will not go through all the other things Salmond does not blame Westminster for.

However, supporters of the yes campaign should ask themselves about Salmond's stated intention of transforming Scotland once it becomes independent e.g.

1. Why has Salmond never used his powers to change income tax?
2. Why is Salmond so determined for interest rates and the central bank function be set by a foreign country which is according to a number of economists not just Mark Carney " is incompatible with independence".
3. Why has he made no tax pledges whatsoever apart from reducing corporation tax? Hardly a new dawn?

[Sam Slater]

Nice to hear from you. 2 & half years since you last posted.

You should post more !happy!