Disillusioned with the Industry

[davepaterson]

I have been lurking on this debate for the past 24 hours or so.

Forasmuch as Emily/One Eyed Jack/Alice in Blunderland, have different opinons and have put over their different opinions in a passionate way - It has been a healthy debate.

Here is my tupenth.

EMILY
Emily has every right to expect NOT to be propositioned etc when on a shoot. Ive not done a shoot with her myself yet, but from her frequent posts here on BFAGD it is abundantly clear that she is very professional, and is someone blessed with brains as well as beauty. I can appreciate where she is coming from.

ONE EYED JACK
One Eyed Jack has also made many sound points in this discussion - and has basically just been honest. If i am not correct, is he not the partner of Faye Rampton - and if being such, I reckon this gives him a lot of insight into the other side of the coin, as I am sure Faye has had many stories to tell of dodgy porno directors trying it on etc etc...so his experience as a well known and established producer and partner of a porn star in my humble opinion give him gravitas on the subject.

ALICE IN BLUNDERLAND
Alice in Blunderland however has been much less "politically correct" on this subject..............................................................................................
and for that reason - I SALUTE HIM!!!
Its about time more people came off the fence and took a strong stance on their beliefs.

Dont get me wrong, I totally respect Emily's viewpoints - but that is because she is very clear on what she is..... ie a professional model / adult performer. Her guidelines on what she does and doesnt do, are very clearly defined, and for that reason she has every right to go off on one should someone ever suggest she "offer" other services etc.

HOWEVER!........
I for one am very confused and kinda bugged with the double standards that exists within the adult business - particularly with the female model fraternity.'
Im not sure Emily's professional standards are shared by the majority. Perhaps i'm incorrect here (and have not wish to offend the many other genuine girls out there), but there are many many other girls/models/adult performers/escorts - whatever they want to be called, who have really mudied the waters.

This is my story
Im a newbie producer, who has very limited experience. Why do i want to get involved in the adult business?.....because i like porn and i like sex. There you go ....."my name is dave and im a porn/sex addict" lol

Just because im an average guy however - doesnt neccessarily preclude me from being businesslike and respectfull in my dealings with models etc.
I find it amazing that NEW models or girls with jackshit experience talk a good game about "only working with professionals" etc, whilst new producers/or guys who work on their own are often referred to as "the dirty old git with a raincoat" brigade

Alice in Blunderland makes some very valid points. Being paid to have sex with a stranger may be different from prostitution, (and there ARE many models who do both), but im getting fed up with those who have double standards


You have an adult industry - where models say they do whatever levels of work = art - nude - continental - girl / girl / boy/girl etc etc.
...........................
So mr newbie producer contacts some models. The girl has her own website and it says she does up to continental. Trouble is you then surf about and she is also listed on be-seen-here or whatever as doing hard girl/girl. Then you see her giving a handjob on conysgirls and then check the newest updates from Jimslip and here she is taking it up the arse from good old jim (lucky ba$#%rd!

and then!.................you go onto the adultwork website.

You are sourcing models - but now see this well known porn star advertising escorting services. she wont reply to your emails. she wont do a scene with YOU because she assumes you are some fat balding old git (no disrespect to jimslip!) (correction jim isnt fat lol) she wont go anywhere near you, coz you are new - ......
BUT.....
.......contact her on a different website and she will shag you bareback for 300quid an hour. It has already been pointed out that getting certs done becomes kinda redundant with this sort of carry on. I obviously cant name names here - but we all know there are LOTS of adult models moonlighting as escorts. (Actually im not totally against this as it may be my only opportunity to get intimate with some of my fantasies lol)
Apart from obvious problems with certs etc - i dont want to critisize anybody who wants to escort aswell. The money is no doubt much better - so good luck to them......but please give a break to us guys. If a guy has got a hardon during a shoot, he is normal. if he fancies the pants of some model and discreetly asks if she escorts - please dont go screaming to the nearest rape unit. If it wasnt for ALL the girls who advertise here and there about "escorting" then there would be no need for him to ask....BUT many decent men are confused as to what the boundaries are - because so many models have muddied these boundaries.


Yes there are predatory pervs outs there who wont take no for an answer....and they should have their arses kicked ..but i ask you this question.
With all the bullshite and contradictions that comes from so many of the female adult performers of our day - WHO IS USING WHO?.....WHO REALLY ARE THE PREDATORS?

rant over

[Welshmorph]

If you see a porn star on somewhere like adultwork who escorts, then contact her on there and arrange to fuck her if that's what you are looking for.

If you are hiring one to shoot and you know she escorts, then you could always mention the fact in your conversation when arranging the shoot and if you are hoping to get more than a shoot with her if it was something she was happy to do it could be arranged in advance rather than just propositioning her during the shoot.

To me it would be completely unprofessional to book someone for a shoot and then to ask them if they would do more for cash. As far as I am concerned you make the guidelines for what is going to happen during the conversation's when arranging the shoot and you then respect those guidelines. If a model then suggested on the day she would do more then you think yourself lucky and decide if you want to, but that should not mean you are then thinking any other model might do the same.

As for Alice's presumption that you stand there during a shoot with an erection, if your sole concern is getting good content, be it stills or video, it is nigh on impossible to get erect due to the amount of concentration involved during the shoot.

My first ever shoot was with Suzie Best. Going in to the shoot I was very nervous and was terrified I was gonna look like an idiot standing there with an erection the whole time. It took me all of about 2 minutes once we started to realise that wasn't going to happen due to the amount of concentration involved.

If it's someone who really doesn't care about the end product of his work, then I can presume it would be easy to get aroused as basicaly the camera is just his way of getting a girl naked. But if you more concerned about getting good content shot then that is your main thought and the fact you have a naked girl spreading her pussy and inserting toys etc is secondary.

You should give it a go sometime. I think from reading your comments on here you would be very surprised.

[Emily Cartwright]

Alice In Blunderland wrote:

> You can pretend there is a difference or dress it up all you
> like, whether a guy pays a girl to have sex with him or a guy
> pays a girl to have sex with a man on film then releases it it
> is still sex and that is what is being sold, if you are doing
> videos either with a man or a woman you are delivering sexual
> pleasure to them.

There is a difference. There is a huge difference. If you're not prepared to accept that there is then I can't argue with you.

I'm not claiming to be any better than prostitutes or escorts, to clarify, but if you knew anything about how pornography is made you would understand that there is a reason why people refer to it as 'performing'. It's not an act of casual sex for anyone involved.

>
>
> I am not pro rape, but if you dress up in clothes and act in a
> provocative manner then don't get upset when men approach you
> because you are appearing as if you are available and looking
> for men and it is human nature.
>
>

Sorry, but bullshit. You're ASSUMING that me wearing a short skirt and heels and doing sexy dancing means I'm trying to broadcast that I'm available. It doesn't. It just means I like wearing those clothes and dancing like that. It doesn't give men the right to treat me with any less respect than they would a woman wearing jeans and a sweater.

>
> > 2. Just because some girls offer extras does not mean all
> girls
> > offer extras.
>
> I never said it did just that if some girls do then don't be
> morally outraged when the photographer asks.
>

And why not? Why should I not be offended when someone asks me what I find to be an offensive question? If I advertise myself as a model, only a model and nothing but a model, why should I not be offended when someone asks me if I'm a prostitute?

> > 3. Just because some photographers ask girls for extras does
> > not make it acceptable.
>
> > 4. Just because girls work in porn does not mean it's okay to
> > ask them to suck your dick for money.
>
> All depends on your viewpoint- like somebody else said some
> girls get upset if the guy does not want extras, like I said it
> is a sex industry not Sunday School

And as I already said, just because this is a sex-related industry doesn't give people the right to proposition all the girls. Even for models who do b/g work, all that means is that they will have sex with professional male performers on camera - there is NO implication at any point that they'll fuck anyone else, and there's no implication that they'll do it off-camera.

Look, this is my job, I've been doing it for a long time, and the fact is that what I know to be true is that photographers who go around asking models for extras are generally a bunch of unprofessional sleazebags who I wouldn't work with even if they left their dicks at home. At this point considering the statements that you've made I don't really expect you to understand because you seem to think that if a girl works in porn she should expect to fend off sexual advances all the time, and that's supposedly okay because men have 'uncontrollable urges' or whatever.

So maybe I'm the only one (although experience tells me that most models feel this way) but I'm always offended when people use photoshoots as an excuse to ask me for sex, and I will only work with the thankfully large majority of photographers who are entirely capable of ignoring their sexual thoughts when they're working, as completely impossible as that may seem to you.

[Cornish Chris]

davepaterson wrote:


> ONE EYED JACK
> One Eyed Jack has also made many sound points in this
> discussion - and has basically just been honest. If i am not
> correct, is he not the partner of Faye Rampton - and if being
> such, I reckon this gives him a lot of insight into the other
> side of the coin, as I am sure Faye has had many stories to
> tell of dodgy porno directors trying it on etc etc...so his
> experience as a well known and established producer and partner
> of a porn star in my humble opinion give him gravitas on the
> subject.

Faye made her opinions on the matter on this very board a while back in this thread

[rgb]

I agree. If you want to produce some content, book a model; if you want a shag, book an escort. In some cases that might be the same woman, but it's a matter of being honest in advance about what you are booking her for.

I was killing some time once with a well-known model who answered her phone to someone who said he wanted to book her; as the conversation progressed it was clear, from her hand gestures to me, that he was getting off on it. Exasperated, she finally said "Look! I'm not here to do phone sex with you - if you want phone sex, call me on my other number 0801......."

[Emily Cartwright]

davepaterson wrote:


If a guy has got a hardon during a shoot, he
> is normal. if he fancies the pants of some model and discreetly
> asks if she escorts - please dont go screaming to the nearest
> rape unit. If it wasnt for ALL the girls who advertise here and
> there about "escorting" then there would be no need for him to
> ask....BUT many decent men are confused as to what the
> boundaries are - because so many models have muddied these
> boundaries.


To be fair, Dave, it's a matter of context.

As a rule, any photographer who can't control himself and has to ask a model whether there might be sex on the cards is, in my book, unprofessional. I don't honestly care if there are 50,000 models who escort to 50 models who don't, the fact is that a photo shoot is a photo shoot is a photo shoot. If you're going to hire an escort, contact one. There are plenty available. There's no excuse for contacting some unsuspecting model and asking her if she's also a prostitute.

And I would hope that any well-adjusted, normal human being, if he really 'fancied the pants' off a model would at least have the decency to ask a model out for a drink or two, maybe dinner and so on, if he really wanted to get busy with her. But, you know, only after he had spent the shoot behaving like a gentleman.

Because you know what? This might be a sex-based industry, and there might be a lot of nudity and penetration and what have you, but at the end of the day we're all still supposed to be decent civilised human beings, and just because a minority of models escort (yes, it is a minority) doesn't mean that we should all become cynical and jaded about the whole thing.

[mr jackson]

hi stormchild

I have just seenyour add, and i really like what you have written,

once being a porn model myself, i understand exactly where you

are coming from, please could you contact me as im very interested

in chatting with you.

thanks samantha x