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[quote]There is a limit on the number of foreigners allowed to play First Class cricket and until recently we were the number one Test, ODI and T20 side in the world. Coincidence?[/quote]

Yes.

England has a high level of Cricket coaches comparable with their rivals. This isn't so in football, where even much smaller nations have better coaches and more coaches.

Football has more funding that Cricket, in England, but not by much, and considering the number of people who play football compared to cricket, then there is far less funding per player in football than cricket.

Just as a quick, off-hand example, in 2011-2012, it is estimated that 2.2m Brits played football at all levels. In that same time frame, 211,300 played cricket at all levels. Between 2013-17, Sport England will give ?30m to grassroots football. They'll also give grassroots cricket ?27.5m.

That's ?13.63 of funding per football player and ?130.15 per cricket player spread over 4 years. Cricketers get 10 times more. Despite all the wealth surrounding the professional game, not much trickles down to local parks, sunday league and kids' facilities.

"So what was the excuse for failure in 1950, 1954, 1958 and 1962? In 1966 England had home advantage and the help of a lineman to win. "

Dunno. I expect it was not playing ENOUGH brilliant foreign players. With respect, I don't think of Scotland, N.Ireland, and Wales as being full of "brilliant foreign players".

But hey that isn't my argument. My argument is the effect of the Premier League on the England team.

1. In 1990 and 96 we were a penalty knockout from being in the finals of the World Cup and the European Championship.
2. Since the Premier League kicked in in earnest over the last 10 - 15 years the England side is nowhere near making a final. 2006, 2010, 2014 they seem universally crap.

Is this decline from the performances of the early 90s when they nearly made finals connected to the overwhelming impact of the Premier League bringing in an increasing number of foreigners?

I think it is based on reasons I have given elsewhere in the thread.

"Is this decline from the performances of the early 90s when they nearly made finals connected to the overwhelming impact of the Premier League bringing in an increasing number of foreigners?"

Ok it may be part of the reason for England's declining football fortunes but the 'foreigner' situation is going to get worse unless the FA do something about it. So expect England to decline more.

"With respect, I don't think of Scotland, N.Ireland, and Wales as being full of "brilliant foreign players".

They weren't English though and they were playing in the old First Division which was an English league. So in my book foreign.

As a neutral (?) I think England have played some decent football at this tournament but just not been quite good enough.
Regrding earlier comments about foreign players I think it is not so much the quantity but the quality of foreign players involved. Up here in Scotland we went through a period at the turn of the millenium where our league was flooded with cheap foreign players (usually Scandinavian). Young Scottish players never got a look in. Our national team suffered badly!
When the Sky bubble burst for us, the clubs had to go back to basics and only now are we seeing a bit of an improvement at national level.
I believe the English problem is similar, albeit on a hugely different scale. You have far too many inferior foreign players in your leagues, the reason? There is now a premium placed on English (or home-grown) talent, just ask Liverpool FC after they were fleeced for Carroll, Henderson, Shelvey etc
Ask Man Utd why on earth they thought Jones was worth 17m?
The best thing that could happen for you guys is for Sky/BT/whoever to drop the investment and allow the sport to go back to growing organically again.


OK, that's enough serious comment...I have to say I am loving the squealing coming from south of the border!

"Ok it may be part of the reason for England's declining football fortunes but the 'foreigner' situation is going to get worse unless the FA do something about it. So expect England to decline more. "

Quite and that is my point. Hence I think there should be a cap on how many non-EU players can appear in any Premier League game as they do in many other EU countries.

I am not sure of the legal position, but if FIFA can get away with fining Man City simply for spending too much money then maybe they can restrict the number of foreign players in total playing in a game. Then if teams flaunt this citing EU free movement of labour rules , maybe FIFA can ban them from European competition. Like I say, I am unsure of the legality of that.

However, there is scope to do something. Whether it happens is a different matter.

"I am not sure of the legal position, but if FIFA can get away with fining Man City simply for spending too much money then maybe they can restrict the number of foreign players in total playing in a game. Then if teams flaunt this citing EU free movement of labour rules , maybe FIFA can ban them from European competition. Like I say, I am unsure of the legality of that."

These 'foreign' players are bought by English clubs (who in turn are now being owned by foreigners). Foreign managers/coaches of English clubs don't help English players come through. All sanctioned by the Premier League (all English i presume) and the FA. Definitely all English. So foreigners are not to blame for England's poor showing at the World Cup. It's the players (who aren't good enough) the Premier League (clubs sides come first) and FA.

The keep those damn foreigners out of the English game lot aren't winning. It's going to get worse rather than better. By the way most English people welcome foreigners at their club if it helps their club win. The national team is not a priority for most of the supporters of England's biggest clubs.

David Johnson wrote:

> I am not sure of the legal position, but if FIFA can get away
> with fining Man City simply for spending too much money then
> maybe they can restrict the number of foreign players in total
> playing in a game. Then if teams flaunt this citing EU free
> movement of labour rules , maybe FIFA can ban them from
> European competition. Like I say, I am unsure of the legality
> of that.


It was UEFA that fined Manchester City, not FIFA.

If either body introduced a rule to "restrict the number of foreign players in total playing in a game" it would be illegal under EU law. Any national football association in the EU would need to terminate their membership of the body in question or face criminal sanctions.

Thanks for the clarification.

"So foreigners are not to blame for England's poor showing at the World Cup."

Not personally, but that is the result I think of so many foreign players being introduced into the Premier League.

That is why many European countries have limitations on the number of non-EU players appearing in the first team. I would like to see that cap introduced here.

cockneygeezer2009 wrote:


> The keep those damn foreigners out of the English game lot
> aren't winning. It's going to get worse rather than better. By
> the way most English people welcome foreigners at their club if
> it helps their club win. The national team is not a priority
> for most of the supporters of England's biggest clubs.
>
Spot on. ECL matches between the biggies get as high if not higher attendances than some international matches.