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It wasn't the fans' fault there was a crush outside, if they'd been filtered through the streets, it wouldn't have happened. They were basically herded into that area with nowhere else to go.

That was the only tunnel they could see. They weren't rushing, most were caught up in the flow. they were being herded to their possible doom.

"I've looked at the make-up of the "independent" inquiry and it makes interesting reading. Perhaps not quite so "independent" as we're being led to believe then?

Have you given up smearing the Liverpool fans and are now trying to smear the panel, Eric?

I notice you forgot to mention the following members, probably because they don't fit in with your attempt to smear the panel as a bunch of Scouse human rights lawyers on the make.

Christine Gifford is an expert in the field of access to information and a member of the Advisory Council on National Records and Archives which advises the government on the disclosure of highly sensitive material. She spent more than 20 years working with the Metropolitan Police and in 1997 joined the Working Party on Openness in Government and later became an adviser to the Lord Chancellor on the implementation of the Freedom of Information Act.

Dr Bill Kirkup CBE held posts in public health at Newcastle University before moving into NHS management with the former Northern Regional Health Authority. In 1999, he was appointed Regional Director of Public Health and in 2005 became Associate Chief Medical Officer in the Department of Health. He has also worked on public health and reconstruction in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan, and was made a CBE in 2008.

Paul Leighton, CBE QPM retired as Deputy Chief Constable of the Northern Ireland police service in May 2009. He dealt with the aftermath of the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre in 1994 when 25 police and service personnel lost their lives. From late 1994 to early 1996 he was seconded to Her Majesty?s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), where he assisted in the inspection of a number of English police forces. He is currently involved in a review of the Northern Ireland prison system for the Department of Justice.

Sarah Tyacke is visiting professor at Royal Holloway, University of London; a Distinguished Senior Research Fellow, School of Advanced Study, University of London, and Chair of the International Records Management Trust. She was Keeper of Public Records and Historical Manuscripts Commissioner for the government and Chief Executive of the National Archives of England and Wales from 1992-2005 ? and responsible for the establishment of The National Archives, which merged the Public Record Office and the Historical Manuscripts Commission from April 2003.

Like I said Eric, stop wasting our time and read the report published yesterday.

And now the legal battle begins for yes you guessed compensation....this has been the motivation of so many of these campaigners. Call me a twat if you like but working with a large number of Liverpudlian colleagues I can tell you straight money has been a large driver in this whole campaign.
Can I ask who is going to fund said legal actions against the Police, NHS, The Sun (good luck trying to sue Rupert btw), the bloke who sold pies outside the ground, in fact the entire population of Sheffield?
Let the 96 rest in peace and move on with your lives.

"Unlike most here I went to hundreds of games in the old first division.Liverpool were the worst.They regularly bought hundreds of supporters without tickets who cadged a lift with their mates .It was a game for them to get in without paying.Hapless turnstile operators were no match for them as they got over and under antiquated turnstiles.Once you were in in those days you were in.Semi finals were prized and the problem was magnified."

Both the Taylor inquiry and the panel results published yesterday state that Liverpool fans did not cause the Hillsborough disaster. Their knowledge and study of tens of thousands of documents and video clips far outweighs the relevance of your trip down memory lane.

"At Heysel many Italian families were devastated by the antics of rogue Liverpool supporters who charged and suffocated their loved ones who had nowhere to go."

This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the Taylor inquiry or independent panel inquiry into Hillsborough is correct. At Heysel 14 fans were charged with involuntary manslaughter.

"Even today hundreds on the Kop mock Man Utd over Munich in mindless chants."

And you seem to have forgotten that Man Utd fans chant about Hillsborough and that there are mindless morons amongst all Premier League fans.

"Totally accept the police fucked up,totally accept many totally innocent people died but stop bleating on that their ticketless scally fans did not contribute to this mess."

I repeat since you clearly havent grasped the main findings of the Taylor report and the Independent panel report. THe Liverpool fans did not cause the disaster. The main factor was a total failure of crowd control by the SYP which was followed up by a huge dirty tricks campaign designed to put all the blame on the Liverpool fans. This dirty tricks campaign included the stories proved to be totally wrong that appeared in the Sun. It also included editing hundreds of statement b police constables to edit out unfavourable references to senior police responsible for crowd control.


"You want us to believe that everyone in that ground had tickets?"

No.

"That their scum fans at Heysel were all goody two shoes?"

No.

What you should believe is that the Liverpool fans did not cause the disaster. That is what the Taylor report said. That is what the Hillsborough independent report said.

Now instead of sharing with us all your total ignorance, why not read the report published yesterday instead.

David Johnson wrote:

> Have you given up smearing the Liverpool fans and are now
> trying to smear the panel, Eric?


Where's the "smear" David? You aren't half a drama queen.

I'm just saying that with some members having close personal ties with Liverpool (and having the Bishop of Liverpool as Chairman), and with a further member making a tidy living from "holding the authorities to account", how can you claim that all of the panel (and therefore its findings) can be relied on to be 100% objective and independent?

How can you be sure that these people's possible personal biases and emotions won't have at least some bearing on the outcome of the inquiry?

Surely even you can see that. Or does your own political agenda and your rabid hatred of the police (well-documented on this forum) blind you to something so obvious?

Because I'm sure that if Cameron appointed some "independent" inquiry panel partly made up of his Old Etonian chums, you'd waste no time in coming on here to mock him in derision and question its impartiality.

- Eric

"I'm just saying that with some members having close personal ties with Liverpool (and having the Bishop of Liverpool as Chairman), and with a further member making a tidy living from "holding the authorities to account", how can you claim that all of the panel (and therefore its findings) can be relied on to be 100% objective and independent?"

It is absolutely clear what you are saying Eric.

Like I said you missed out the background of half the panel members which I included for you, because they didnt fit in with your smear.

And to answer the 100% objective remark, clearly in an inquiry you get people with differing backgrounds and views. The way that disagreements are dealt with in such an inquiry is by having dissenting statements in the foreword by individual panel members who disagree with potential "bias" in the conclusions of others in the report.

There were no dissenting voices/sections listed in this report which if you had been arsed to look at, you would have known for yourself.

"Call me a twat if you like"

You are a twat.

"but working with a large number of Liverpudlian colleagues I can tell you straight money has been a large driver in this whole campaign. "

You are a lying twat.

All Liverpudlians know what the motivation of the families is, do they?
Remind me to nip down to where Lord Lucan used to live. The locals are sure to know where he is now.

"Can I ask who is going to fund said legal actions against the Police, NHS, The Sun (good luck trying to sue Rupert btw), the bloke who sold pies outside the ground, in fact the entire population of Sheffield? "

You are a money obsessed, ignorant twat.

Some families have already received compensation but I doubt if it is as much as the ?330K that a policeman suffering post traumatic stress received for his experiences at Hillsbourough.

Got any mates in the police force? I feel sure they will tell you that it is all about getting the compensation.

"Let the 96 rest in peace and move on with your lives.

Why? Have you finished pissing on the memory of the 96 dead and their families?

Twat!

And you're a right one to talk about "smears" David. Higher up you fatuously accused / misquoted me, claiming that I was saying that the report (and also the Taylor report before it) are "wrong".

I never said any such thing. This report seems to have been conducted thoroughly and is probably quite sound - as far as it goes.

The police fucked up, the ground wasn't fit for purpose, there were failures in many areas, there was a shameful cover up and terrible lies told afterwards etc, etc. Fine. I fully accept all that.

But I do have my suspicions that any contributory causal role by fans (ticketless or otherwise) was deliberately whitewashed out by this "independent" inquiry (chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool!) for reasons of political expediency and to appease the families, to give them some sort of "closure". No-one on it was ever going to attach even a shred of blame to Liverpool fans - they would have been completely pilloried and vilified if they did. The subject is just too emotive now.

Yes very fucking convenient isn't it David?! No dissenting voices whatsoever. After all, who of the nine would have wanted to be branded as the new Kelvin Mckenzie?

- Eric

Eric,

Like a number of people on this forum you seem to find it totally impossible to differentiate between your guesswork and evidence e.g.

"But I do have my suspicions that any contributory causal role by fans (ticketless or otherwise) was deliberately whitewashed out by this "independent" inquiry (chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool!) for reasons of political expediency and to appease the families, to give them some sort of "closure". No-one on it was ever going to attach even a shred of blame to Liverpool fans - they would have been completely pilloried and vilified if they did. The subject is just too emotive now."

The above is total Jackanory i.e. complete guesswork.

Now although you might like to fill your day with it, I can give it a miss.

I will leave you to ramble on and on and on giving us the benefits of your guesswork.