[quote]I never understand why people who come from a totally differnt culture and way of doing things chose to move here when they know the way of doing things here is very differnt and they are not going to adapt to it. Why come?[/quote]
Better opportunities and a better life. What else.
Why do Brits who holiday abroad not even bother learning the language of the country they are in and then get annoyed if they ever find themselves in a position where no one speaks English? The weather, obviously. There are people in all walks of life who want to have their cake and eat it.
Multiculturalism has failed, says Cameron...
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Multiculturalism has failed, says Cameron...
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Sam
"All this confusion about what's metaphorical, what's literal and what's ignored altogether is why Christianity has many more sects and offshoots than Islam. The Quran is considered the perfect, unalterable, unquestionable, LITERAL and FINAL word of God".
Really? Who considers it so. You have bomb attacks on Christian Church services in some parts of the Arab world like Iraq whereas in Morocco, Muslim and Jewish communities have lived side by side peacefully for centuries. In Egypt, you yourself, told the heartwarming story of Egyptian Muslims coming out to support and defend a Christian church service.
On the one hand, you have the Taliban arguing that democracy is against the law of Islam. On the other, you have the Egyptian and Tunisian people protesting for the end of dictatorship and the introduction of free and fair elections. Again, I think you oversimplify.
What I do believe though is that what could be deemed unlawful invasions of countries such as Iraq by the likes of Bush using terms such as "Crusade" to describe his action, is more likely to push young Arabs into the way of thinking of extremist Islam as opposed to the concepts of Western democracy.
Cheers
D
Really? Who considers it so. You have bomb attacks on Christian Church services in some parts of the Arab world like Iraq whereas in Morocco, Muslim and Jewish communities have lived side by side peacefully for centuries. In Egypt, you yourself, told the heartwarming story of Egyptian Muslims coming out to support and defend a Christian church service.
On the one hand, you have the Taliban arguing that democracy is against the law of Islam. On the other, you have the Egyptian and Tunisian people protesting for the end of dictatorship and the introduction of free and fair elections. Again, I think you oversimplify.
What I do believe though is that what could be deemed unlawful invasions of countries such as Iraq by the likes of Bush using terms such as "Crusade" to describe his action, is more likely to push young Arabs into the way of thinking of extremist Islam as opposed to the concepts of Western democracy.
Cheers
D
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Sam
[quote]Really? Who considers it so.[/quote]
All Muslims who take their religion seriously. Feel free to ask any Imam what the Quran is and who Mohammed was. The Quran is the FINAL and LITERAL word of God. Mohammed was the FINAL (and thus, to them, the most important) prophet.
[quote]In Egypt, you yourself, told the heartwarming story of Egyptian Muslims coming out to support and defend a Christian church service.[/quote]
I don't see how that undermines or changes what I recently said about Islam. It's not as if I said, or implied, all Muslims thought the same. Just that the majority of Muslim extremists who decide to blow themselves up amongst westerners do so not because all the political excuses and current wars/land grabs comes down to one thing: religion. Yet again, if the Iraqis or Palestinians were Christian/Jewish/Buddist/Hindu/Atheist I'd wager 99% of those bombers from 9/11 and 7/7 wouldn't have been talked into doing what they did. I could be wrong but nothing has persuaded me to think otherwise, yet.
[quote]On the one hand, you have the Taliban arguing that democracy is against the law of Islam. On the other, you have the Egyptian and Tunisian people protesting for the end of dictatorship and the introduction of free and fair elections. Again, I think you oversimplify. [/quote]
No, I don't think I do. You see, who are the bad Muslims here? The Taliban for following the Quran and Hadith to the letter or other Muslims who, like many liberal Christians, ignore the more perverse and hard-to-swallow passages? Who am I, or you, to judge who the real bad guys are, if we believed in a God? Surely only God can decide that. If you're of no religion, and don't have a God then you can decide, as I do, that it's those that take their religion the most seriously who are the one's that are most dangerous and the one's with less zeal are the one's I'd be happier having a cup of tea with. Conclusion: religion is the underlying problem.
[quote]What I do believe though is that what could be deemed unlawful invasions of countries such as Iraq by the likes of Bush using terms such as "Crusade" to describe his action, is more likely to push young Arabs into the way of thinking of extremist Islam as opposed to the concepts of Western democracy.[/quote]
I agree with that. Bush wasn't the most careful of speakers.
All Muslims who take their religion seriously. Feel free to ask any Imam what the Quran is and who Mohammed was. The Quran is the FINAL and LITERAL word of God. Mohammed was the FINAL (and thus, to them, the most important) prophet.
[quote]In Egypt, you yourself, told the heartwarming story of Egyptian Muslims coming out to support and defend a Christian church service.[/quote]
I don't see how that undermines or changes what I recently said about Islam. It's not as if I said, or implied, all Muslims thought the same. Just that the majority of Muslim extremists who decide to blow themselves up amongst westerners do so not because all the political excuses and current wars/land grabs comes down to one thing: religion. Yet again, if the Iraqis or Palestinians were Christian/Jewish/Buddist/Hindu/Atheist I'd wager 99% of those bombers from 9/11 and 7/7 wouldn't have been talked into doing what they did. I could be wrong but nothing has persuaded me to think otherwise, yet.
[quote]On the one hand, you have the Taliban arguing that democracy is against the law of Islam. On the other, you have the Egyptian and Tunisian people protesting for the end of dictatorship and the introduction of free and fair elections. Again, I think you oversimplify. [/quote]
No, I don't think I do. You see, who are the bad Muslims here? The Taliban for following the Quran and Hadith to the letter or other Muslims who, like many liberal Christians, ignore the more perverse and hard-to-swallow passages? Who am I, or you, to judge who the real bad guys are, if we believed in a God? Surely only God can decide that. If you're of no religion, and don't have a God then you can decide, as I do, that it's those that take their religion the most seriously who are the one's that are most dangerous and the one's with less zeal are the one's I'd be happier having a cup of tea with. Conclusion: religion is the underlying problem.
[quote]What I do believe though is that what could be deemed unlawful invasions of countries such as Iraq by the likes of Bush using terms such as "Crusade" to describe his action, is more likely to push young Arabs into the way of thinking of extremist Islam as opposed to the concepts of Western democracy.[/quote]
I agree with that. Bush wasn't the most careful of speakers.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Sam
"but the underlying reason a Pakistani cares so much about what's happening in Palestine, and why he/she's willing to die and kill others in their cause is because of religion. Pure and simple religion"
I disagree.
"Same goes for the NI troubles. Of course the troubles are complex, but what causes the division in the first place? Religion does."
I disagree.
I have no more to say.
Cheers
D
I disagree.
"Same goes for the NI troubles. Of course the troubles are complex, but what causes the division in the first place? Religion does."
I disagree.
I have no more to say.
Cheers
D
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Apologies
Forgot to mention in my previous post about your link between Muslims and terror, in the way you appear to set Muslims apart because they have not gone through a period of enlightenment.
You really need to read up on the Tamil Tigers.
The extremist Muslims of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan launch terror attacks on the people they view as their oppressors e.g. Americans, British and collaboraters of the above. The Tamil Tigers, mainly Hindu, launch terror attacks on the people they view as their oppressors, the Buddhist Singalese majority etc etc.
I don't see much difference in the approach, do you?
Cheers
D
You really need to read up on the Tamil Tigers.
The extremist Muslims of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan launch terror attacks on the people they view as their oppressors e.g. Americans, British and collaboraters of the above. The Tamil Tigers, mainly Hindu, launch terror attacks on the people they view as their oppressors, the Buddhist Singalese majority etc etc.
I don't see much difference in the approach, do you?
Cheers
D