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I'm pretty certain those being lifted would be pissed off at the fact they are being lifted. It said on the programme that "one restaurant lost its chef" and it mentioned other cases too. I doubt they would have gone after naturalised British citizens and arrested them in the middle of their shift. Let's wait and see what happens to the people they nicked yesterday in Southall, I'm sure they are all illegal immigrants, otherwise they would not have been arrested. It's much more straightforward to legitimately arrest someone whose documentation is not in order, than it is to arrest someone they think MIGHT have committed a crime, for example. The word 'alleged' doesn't really apply, a person can instantly prove their status by showing papers, unlike someone suspected of a crime for instance where the person will deny it and then they have to try and prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. "If you are in the UK legally, show us your papers to prove it". Straightforward.

I'm in this country legally. What papers do I have to provide?

NI card

"I'm pretty certain those being lifted would be pissed off at the fact they are being lifted."

Max, this is a statement of the bleeding obvious. It is completely different from your totally unsubstantiated claim that "Illegal immigrants seem to feel they are being mistreated by the fact they're being tracked down and kicked out of a country they are illegally in."

"The word 'alleged' doesn't really apply, a person can instantly prove their status by showing papers"

This of course is complete bilge. What papers do you carry around Max so that you can "instantly prove your status by showing papers? In my case and everyone I know, we carry nothing. And even if you carry something, you may have come across the concept of counterfeit documents, Max? These need to be authenticated by people experienced in this area.

People who are arrested for an offence such as this, are always at this point, alleged offenders. To argue anything else is to get on the slippery slope to supporting a totalitarian, fascist state.

Passport.

"What papers do you carry around Max so that you can "instantly prove your status by showing papers? In my case and everyone I know, we carry nothing. And even if you carry something, you may have come across the concept of counterfeit documents, Max? These need to be authenticated by people experienced in this area."

Someone could show what they have, rather like if ever you have to show ID for something, and once it's established that you are that person the Police should be able to do an instant check on their computer. As for fake documents, that is always going to be a problem. Unless they start doing retina-scans, like you see in some futuristic films, there will always be the possibility that a person may be lying about who they are and are fooling the authorities with fake documents. That's a problem they'll never get around.

Of there would have been ID cards but didn't the Tories torpedo that when in opposition?

Had that have gone ahead it would have been voluntary anyway, rather than compulsory, so it would have made little difference. Those people who didn't want to be instantly identified would just have not carried an ID card.

max_tranmere wrote:

> Had that have gone ahead it would have been voluntary anyway,
> rather than compulsory, so it would have made little
> difference. Those people who didn't want to be instantly
> identified would just have not carried an ID card.

It would have become compulsory to carry one very quickly. These things are always a ratchet never a pendulum. You should never give the authorities more power over you because they will always, always abuse it. Look at Ripa.

I believe we are the only country in the EU without ID cards ? long may that continue.

"there will always be the possibility that a person may be lying about who they are and are fooling the authorities with fake documents. That's a problem they'll never get around."

Quite. That is why those arrested should always be referred to as alleged offenders until the authorities can provide some clarification.