Has Copyright owners actions affected your choice?

[one eyed jack]

Without a doubt, ACS Law sound like complete fucking scumbags and its no surprise that aggressive tactic resulted in their downfall.

They deserved it. If my thoughts are crrect as tothe team behind that outfit it comes as no surprise the merciless and mercenary approach to it all. They dont sound too far off the company I referred to in Berlin with Gunther the bald 7 foot german guy. Dude towered over me!

I cant imagine how ACS Law wuld get someone to consider suicide but I can imagine the stress was that much it could impact on someones health but isnt this the same as getting a final reminder of court action from British Gas or the local council for tax unpaid. What could ACS Law do that would push someone tothe brink like that? Did he get a visit from someone? The more threatening and personal the emails got I wouldnt take it seriously at all.

Arguing against a possible suicide is awkward because its like , all the cards are off the table in defence and bear in mind Im just playing devils advocate here. Im not the official spokesmen on the topic. I'm just opinionated enough that people might think me so, so just to make that clear again

As for getting Ben Dover to talk about this I think you'll find the only thing he'll be stuck on is people "nicking his stuff", he wants his money back. Anyother line of argument will probably draw a blank.

Whats being suggested is that GEIL are targetting people randomly (probably not even downloading BD titles) sounds naughty but if thats the case I'm sure this can be appealed against if the courts are supervising alongside O2

As for the nurses suicide, it seems everyone is going against the prank as the cause of that suicide but Im wondering if it had anyhting to do with other things going on ion her life.

Its a terrible thing to take your own life for things like this but we dont really know whats the cause of it. It could also be the unwanted press attention she has been getting as a result, which would make the media just as culpable but thats another thread altogether.

If as you say GEIL have refined the ACS Law way of doing this then isnt that how things are done anyway? Suffragettes died to get the female vote, laws were changed because of miscarriages of justice etc...Im still stuck on the "if its so immoral then why is it so legal?"

Especially after the ACS Law fiasco

I personally dont see anything wrong with Mr Beckers supplying security to synagogues. Theres a lot of radical muslims about. Makes sense to me. Israelis/ jews are subject to attacks in groups that muslims would score very high points if they had a successful attack on one.

[bpaw]

@OEJ

Thanks again for your reply. You say you are not the spokesperson for your industry, well I wish you were!

I guess that GEIL come to producers and offered the service of dealing with the whole operation. If things turned out differently, things could have happened quickly for you to be receiving the rewards now (Apologies if that sounds a bit hollow!).

I did make the point of a finely executed scam by DL, TBI, ACS:Law which had their failings. The refinement from GEIL is simply refining the scam, but point taken.

My particular point is Julian Becker is going to have to deal with correspondence that I think he is not qualified for. He either gets too emotional and is unable to go through with the claims, or he gets all tough and ignores desperate peoples pleas. It?s a no win situation. Other organisations like British Gas have fully trained people who deal with debt.

As for the nurse, it is very likely that other factors contributed to her state of mind. But the prank must have ?tipped her over?. Maybe you and me could laugh off the fact that Her Majesty might be miffed, but to some it can be too much.

[bpaw]

BTW - I don't need anybody to say to me what Lindsay Honey is like when he *had* his own blog:

http://www.ben-dover.biz/blog/

Have a good!

So, "Oh well, that is him for yer!"

The way he talks about his "Pie & Mash" experience, you could think that he is a normal person with feelings.

[bpaw]

Second chance!!!! A mis-post before!

BTW - I don't need anybody to say to me what Lindsay Honey is like when he *had* his own blog:

http://www.ben-dover.biz/blog/

Have a good read!

So, "Oh well, that is him for yer!" is OK?

The way he talks about his "Pie & Mash" experience, you could think that he is a normal person with feelings.

[Hickster]

@OEJ

You wrote "I personally dont see anything wrong with Mr Beckers supplying security to synagogues. Theres a lot of radical muslims about. Makes sense to me. Israelis/ jews are subject to attacks in groups that muslims would score very high points if they had a successful attack on one.
"

Err ok, you REALLY don't see an issue with a Pornographer providing security to a Synagogue? well maybe however I DO see a HUGE problem with a Synagogue accepting security from a PORNOGRAPHER, I mean really? you don't see some conflict there? I mean Becker sure we already know he has limited scruples sadly I expected more from a place of Worship, that should be a pillar in their community.

As far as the stress caused by ACS:LAW, again you are of made of sterner stuff than than the average person, who when receiving a letter from a Solicitor, saying that "You HAVE done this, we have the evidence, and YOU WILL PAY, or else" would not simply laugh, but would generally take it very seriously. You have to remember that unlike, Mr Honey who has spent time in prison, most of us are actually Law Abiding people.

My take on the Nurse tragedy, would be maybe they should look more into the working practices of the Hospital and the wider NHS than focusing on some lame hoax call. The poor lady obv had more issue s and must have been under stress. For a parent to choose taking their own life over looking after their children must be more vulnerable situation than has been reported. It is tragic, my Prayers are with the Lady's family.

[bpaw]

I appreciate the thoughts of ScottMcGowan, muswell, Lizard and others.

I confess I have a lack of understanding pornography aficionados. Games, music, software and films I more understand. Well, I?m willing to give it a go with an un-scientific guess.

My guess is that there may be generally three types of people, as there are with the other media:

(1) Some accumulate whatever they can, regardless of producer.
(2) Some have particular interest in certain producers, and a general interest in the rest.
(3) Some are more appreciative of certain producers and have more interest in building a valued collection.

Who are downloaders?
My guess is if you have 10 p2p downloaders, 5 would be (1), 3 would be (2) and 2 would be (3).

Who are purchasers?
My guess is if you have 10 sales on YC, 1 would be (1), 3 would be (2) and 6 would be (3).

Who have a legitimate collection?
My guess is (1) 10%, (2) 35% and (3) 60%.

So my very un-scientific guess is that:

(1) Most p2p downloads are from people who wouldn?t have paid for it regardless.
(2) Many with a healthy interest in such media are occasional downloaders.
(3) People with a real dedication to such media are unlikely downloaders.

So my very un-scientific guess is it is less likely that a p2p download is a lost sale.

Which brings me back to my original question of the actions taken by GEIL would harm the sales of BDP.

Well, my guess is that they are not going to increase sales significantly by their actions. Would their actions make legitimate purchasers buy more of their material or less? My un-scientific guess is less.

So what? My guesstimates are a load of crap you might say. Well at least I made an effort. What efforts have GEIL done to quantify their assertion that an upload is a lost sale? What producers out there have actually tried to gain insight to the real problem with p2p downloads?

By GEILs logic, they say:

(1) Every download is a lost sale.

Please feel free to post your own guesstimates.

[one eyed jack]

Seriously Hickster, I dont see a problem with a pornographer supplying security to a synagogue at all

I dont see pornography as a bad thing is probably why but this seems to be the source of all our problems

Pornis bad so therefore why should we try to fight back against it? Its as if what we do is immoral therefore we should lie down and take it. Is that it?

Ive heard this same argument used on this forum before with another poster levelling dissent at Mr Honey because he served time at her majestys pleasure for it so he has some kind of cheek to wanting to protect his interests with regards to it.

Is this the same thing?

If we are to bring religion and faith into our moral decisions then let he without sin cast the first stone

The beautiful thing about religion is that you can spend 6 days of the week sinning and spend the 7th day to confess and repeat the same shit come Monday morning to Saturday afternoon, up until the footie

Whats good for thre vatican should be good for everyone else. The BBC exposed the vaticans indirect investment into a pornogrpaphic franchise but yet no one speaks of that

[one eyed jack]

Given that churches harbour kiddy fiddlers I'd say Julian was a saint by comparison

[Hickster]

@OEJ

I have included below what I have already put, as you did not answer them.

A few pointers, I feel that although the Porn industry is "Legal", it is not conducive to a Place of worship, also I would argue that the majority of Church/Mosque/Synagogue are NOT as you say into "Children".

Also I would argue that most of the people I have know are not hypocritical and only go on a Sunday and spend the rest of the week sinning, as you put it. Although I concede their are to many who do. It is not a beautiful thing as you say to be a hypocrite. But I do not want this to be a religious debate, it is not. I was merely surprised at the Synagogue for allowing their place to be compromised, I was not surprised that someone who is an opportunist offered their services!

You are obv VERY close to Becker and Honey, and it seems as your business relies on them and more importantly NOT upsetting them in any way, I feel you can not be objective enough. I am assuming your name will be on the Court Order tomorrow as it was when it was first put forward. That is a shame, it is of course your choice. One thing I have noticed with the handful of people I have spoken to is a "Don't upset Honey or Becker" kind of attitude.

And of course no I am not saying that because he spent time inside he is not allowed to protect his material, but as I have also said, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STOPPING COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.

You wrote

"..... however,if it is a con then why are the courts and O2 facilitating it? To say it is a con is to also say it is illegal. If it was that illegal surely the BB wouldve condemned it on their news report of what GEIL are doing. This is a major point to me...."

As I have said before the getting of the NPO is straightforward, indeed they rarely get turned down, it is WHAT YOU DO WITH THE NPO that makes it a CON. Now the Judge granted the NPO, but as Consumer Focus knew what it would be used for, from PAST EXPERIENCE, they got the Judge to at least look at the letters, the FIRST letter, you understand, their will be NO scrutiny for the subsequent letters that Golden Eye send.

I cant speak for the BBC the quality of their journalism differs, as does their attitude, they did feature ACS:LAW and Davenport Lyons on their programs. I would love to see if Ben Dover turned up for a proper grilling, Andrew Crossley never did. He appeared on the "You and yours", but then never did after that on either of the "One Shows".


I more interested in wether Lindsay Honey really is the Highest Paid Porn Star in the UK*, I mean if not he is a liar, and if true it shows the shockingly desperate low that the UK Porn Industry has sunk to, and that cant be blamed on Filesharing.


*He has claimed this in an interview!

He also stated;", ??My critics do affect me badly. Sometimes so badly that I have to leave my 6 bedroom mansion in a gated executive park in Surrey, get in my Ferrari and drive to the airport to fly out to my luxury villa in Spain and take a long leisurely swim in my beautiful blue sparkling pool overlooking the Jalon valley!??

This leaves me with VERY little sympathy for his argument that "Copyright Infringement" is causing him financial trouble, merely seems to me that he took to much cut of the profits. It seems he has done VERY well out of Porn, that sales weren't that affected, however, of course that is assuming that he is telling the truth.

We KNOW this action has nothing to do with copyright protection so let us stop pretending it is.

[one eyed jack]

I am not close to Julian Becker or Ben Dover at all. We get on. We know each other. I filmed Julians wedding as he paid for my services but that doesnt mean we go on windy walks holding each others hands. We're not in and out of each others lives like that. They have their own interests and I have mine.

I'd say we are friendly but to suggest we are close is an entirely different definition of the word close.

I do not do this for them. I do this for me. I am not expecting to see any money in this and nor did I agree for him to represent me to claw back money I may have lost.

I see this as a perfect vehicle to highlight the issue of piracy if and when the press comes knocking screaming "how dare you" Otherwise, without it, who wants to hear another producer bleating about how much their stuff is stolen and how much money is lost? If you have a stick to beat them back with they will listen though.

When the smoke clears it might pave the way for the government to listen to reasoned debate and the courts to implement something a bit more effective in which to deal with this but so far all I'm seeing is mealy mouthed politicians making the least attempt to address the issue of copyright infringement thats screwing up the entire business of media entertainment. Not just porn

I've already stated that I am not in the business of picking on innocent people and believe every step of this operation is supervised by the court and other agents to make sure this doesnt go the way of that ACS Law travesty

I do not share the same motives as others who think this is going to be an easy get rich quick scheme when it can be used to address more people with the exposure the media will give it.

If the media dont give it exposure you will have to ask why the hell not if its so immoral. I havent seen the BBC use that label yet either in their reports of it

There is more mileage in this than just making money. I've often said, that inaction on anything sends out the signal you are complacent and allows the present trend f free to continue unchallenged.

Its precisely this complacency why the adult industry is constantly picked on like a whipping boy to blame for everything. On the one hand we have to deal with piracy and revenues being down because of it and while everyone is breaking out the finger violins for the woe is me, we have to deal with ATVOD who want our money for doing nothing while allowing piracy and free porn to continue so pardon me all over the place if I am not a bit more sympathetic but the cup of charity is very low right now.

Im using this to have something to say about it all

I for one would like to put a real face and name to these victims I keep hearing about. I honestly don't believe they exist. The one link of the old lady awhile back, What was the outcome of that? She was innocent right? So she got let off. Thats how I see it working.

I can see the guilty, the hardline serious downloaders making money off it pleading innocent and psychological distress resulting from it

I'm not speaking for Julian or Ben Dover. I am speaking for myself. My motives and beleif. There was a time when Julian can only represent his client but if and when that tide changes I know what I've signed up for.