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As I have said elsewhere, if the police had been doing their job, and done as you say, then it wouldn't have mattered who turned up, they would not have been herded into the pen as they were.

andy at handiwork wrote:

> if the police had been doing their
> job, and done as you say, then it wouldn't have mattered who
> turned up,


Absolutely correct.

Liverpool were in a semi-final at Hillsborough the year before and that time the police did operate the usual cordon around the ground -- preventing any ticketless fans from getting close to the stadium.

Extract from today's report.

"From statements provided to the Panel, at previous FA Cup semi-finals South Yorks Police (SYP)
managed congestion in the outer concourse area and its approaches by filtering the
crowd and checking tickets on the roads leading to the ground. This did not happen
in 1989."

and

"The SYP decision to replace the experienced match commander, Chief
Superintendent Brian Mole, and appoint Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield
who had minimal experience of policing at Hillsborough, just weeks before an FA
Cup semi-final, has been previously criticised. None of the documents disclosed to
the Panel indicated the rationale behind this decision."

The evil witch Thatcher would have almost certainly encouraged and sanctioned the avalanche of lies and misinformation resulting from Hillsborough. During her time, the authorities/ police were NEVER blamed for anything.

David Johnson wrote:

> Extract from today's report.
>
> "From statements provided to the Panel, at previous FA Cup
> semi-finals South Yorks Police (SYP)
> managed congestion in the outer concourse area and its
> approaches by filtering the
> crowd and checking tickets on the roads leading to the ground.
> This did not happen
> in 1989."


Thank you for those references, David Johnson. The key points exactly.

JamesW wrote:

> But normal procedure is that there is a police cordon some
> distance from the turnstiles at which fans have to show their
> tickets -- meaning that ticketless fans can never get anywhere
> near the turnstile area. Do you understand that we8derby?


JamesW wrote:

> Liverpool were in a semi-final at Hillsborough the year
> before and that time the police did operate the usual cordon around
> the ground -- preventing any ticketless fans from getting close
> to the stadium.


So which is it? You seem to be wanting to have it both ways.

Because by your logic, "no police cordon" to check tickets must surely mean that there could have been ticketless fans there, no?

If there was no police cordon to check tickets, how can it be stated definitively that everyone in that crowd trying to get into the ground had tickets?

- Eric

I've looked at the make-up of the "independent" inquiry and it makes interesting reading.

Of the nine panel members who were responsible for it, at least three have close links with the city of Liverpool - including the Chairman who is none other than the Bishop of Liverpool himself.

Another is a "civil rights" lawyer who specialises in (i.e. makes a handsome living from) "helping members of the public seek accountability from the state".

Perhaps not quite so "independent" as we're being led to believe then?

- Eric

You must feel a right fucking tool today !tut!

I rather think he's probably pretty pleased with himself actually.

Unlike most here I went to hundreds of games in the old first division.Liverpool were the worst.They regularly bought hundreds of supporters without tickets who cadged a lift with their mates .It was a game for them to get in without paying.Hapless turnstile operators were no match for them as they got over and under antiquated turnstiles.Once you were in in those days you were in.Semi finals were prized and the problem was magnified.At Heysel many Italian families were devastated by the antics of rogue Liverpool supporters who charged and suffocated their loved ones who had nowhere to go.Even today hundreds on the Kop mock Man Utd over Munich in mindless chants.Totally accept the police fucked up,totally accept many totally innocent people died but stop bleating on that their ticketless scally fans did not contribute to this mess.You want us to believe that everyone in that ground had tickets?That their scum fans at Heysel were all goody two shoes?Derek Hatton and his ilk can take a walk.