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Bimmercat wrote:

> Now, they're trying again to pass a socialized medicine plan,
> like what you have down under or in the UK or Canada. Funny,
> but everyone I meet from countries with these "free" health
> plans do nothing but complain of how shitty the service is and
> how its simply not worth it. Its also not "free" as some would
> have you think. Look at your tax rates...you ARE paying for it.
> I just pray it never sees the light of day here in the USA, but
> several Democrats are pushing it (one of many of my problems
> with the Democrat Party).

yes we are paying for 'it' and generally speaking, we're happy to do so, as long as our money is being spent effectively where it really counts - i.e. on the patient, not legions of bureaucrats.

why are we happy to do so? because culturally speaking, it is widely perceived as being of benefit not only to ourselves, as individuals, but to the health of society as a whole. how come? well, most of us still like to think that there is such a thing as society and that having a free-at-the-point-of-delivery system is inherently more moral, not say more pleasant, than being hassled about what plan you're on or whether your cc details pan out, when the main thing on everyones mind is whether this is possibly the big one or not...

btw, i note your use of the phrase 'socialised medicine' - a term coined by health insurance lobbyists, no doubt, to tap into propaganda led paranoia about state involvement in just about any aspect of society. given such a view of the world, maybe we should look at doing away with other state socialised entities such like the 'police' - contracting their duties out and putting them on piece rates. the army, too, would seem to be a candidate ripe for reform. who knows? perhaps american led private militias would be making a much better fist of it in iraq than the current bunch of state cosseted lackies?

as regards problems with the democrats, i'd have thought you'd be far more concerned with the manner in which the bush administration has managed in a few short years to take a healthy fiscal scenario and turn it into a $500 billion federal deficit and a projected $500 billion trade deficit come the november elections of next year! the democrats under clinton were economic einsteins by comparison!

The biggest problem in health is our reliance on Presribed drugs

Paying just $AUS2-50 towards a prescription is ridiculous for drugs that can cost anywhere from $AUS5-00 to whatever

I'm all for the financially cash strapped to be helped with subsidisation
but when you see people like my parents in their early 60s who own their house $AUS300,000 freehold and have Superannuation $AUS300,000 just accruing interest getting this benefit you know the system is fatally flawed

Trouble is the Greys are in such plague proportions that no Politician or Political Party is game to do the right thing by Society for fear of a voting back lash

cheers
B....OZ

You missed out privatised tax collection, or tax-farming as it was known in the days of Henry VII. I'm glad Thatcher wasn't a Tudor historian.

Yes we do pay for our free at point of delivery health service. Taxes, prescription drugs (some of us, anyway) and some additional costs can be incurred in hospital.

But our NHS is something of which we were once proud and can be proud of again ; I firmly agree that we need to target spending in the NHS in a better way and perhaps those that can afford to pay privately could be encouraged to do so via tax credits.

But although it has its problems (largely due to capacity and resource shortfall) it is infinitely preferable to the US system. We had to bring my brother-in-law home from the US because his treatment was delayed by arguments over his insurance. Meanwhile his broken arm remained, well, broken. And don't insult my intelligence by saying that this would be an isolated case. It isn't.

Just what is 'socialised medicine' ? What's so wrong with free healthcare ?Why have the Democrats got this wrong ? Instead of spending billions on being in a war and a country you had absolutely no right to be in, why doesn't your wunnerful Mr. Bush and his hopeless cabinet spend money on free quality healthcare for those that need it ? Or would that invoke the wrath of the big health insurance companies who pay politicians in the US millions to promote their own interests and profits ? Just like Mr. Bush went to Iraq to help all his oil buddies.

Ah yes, America where you can get the finest healthcare, justice and political inertia money can buy.

...'I am betting that you'd be surprised how similar we all are'.

Still want to bet ?

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If you insist. I do find the constant bullying and finger-pointing style of your posts wearying. I try to keep up because I'm interested in other views but your text usually starts to scatter fire among various topics like one of your countrymen feeding lead to fellow citizens in schools, McDonalds, gas stations ; you know the sort of thing.

I reiterate what I said to you before ; there is a huge social, political and cultural difference between the arguments. But you seem to want to take on the world and browbeat the rest into submission. I claim no right or wrong ; I leave the certainties in life to people like you. I would merely state that I prefer our systems of social welfare to yours and whether you agree or not is irrelevant.

What you seem to struggle with is the least bit of criticism (q.v. passim) about practically anything American. Perhaps our sense of the slightly ridiculous and self-deprecation in the UK save us from the ennui of always being right or sure of our ways.

For someone who keeps claiming to be 'somewhere in the middle' your views on many key issues point firmly to the right of Attila the Hun. By the way, your so-called 'libertarian' views have long been ambushed by the far right.