Models doing extras???

[Jonone]

There's an argument that the kind of participation described is merely a demonstration of the individual's belief in the product. You wouldn't criticise Gordon Ramsay or Marco Pierre White for enjoying eating in their own restaurants - why have a downer on these guys for starring in their own porn just because you deem the production values to be below what you would consider as 'professional' ?

I would remind you that the word 'amateur' isn't the opposite of professional, rather it describes someone who does things out of a spirit of love and enthusiasm for that which they do. You evidently don't perceive any value in this where porn is concerned, but others do.

It's merely a DIY/ punk ethic applied to porn. If it's a legitimate means of expression in music and other creative endeavours then I would say it's legitimate for porn too. Furthermore it's two distinct markets and what you see as 'cheap' or 'sordid' arguably doesn't cannibalise sales or undermine the credibility of high(er) end porn because they're different markets. It's like saying that the quality of football in the Division Two cheapens the Premiership. It doesn't because it's not the same customer and if it is their expectations are adjusted accordingly.

[videokim]

Pauls right, in this game you help people out & it comes back, me or John will help any model/producer without thinking we want sexual favours for services rendered.
As John said earlier gonzo's & solo producers doing pov will hire models for their sites/dvd's etc but if your amateur or pro filming the girls the money is the same & its a good job done, its when a shoot as been set up etc & then extra services are required (without paying her extra money) because the producer/videographer/photographer can't control himself or his urges & wants a charity fuck which puts the models off using or working for them again...

Kim x

[one eyed jack]

Well I was trying to avoid mentioning it but this is one of those areas we have discussed at the UKAP meetings in terms of code of conduct.

Thing is, no matter what our intentions are its always down to the individual how they conduct themselves. We cant police people who are olde enough to know better.

Thing is, with all the rants, opinions and what not, its just going to remain that, as the industry like the proverbial leopard "never changes its spots"

So while I think your intentions are noble, its not really going to make a difference here on a forum where those who are guilty will steadfastly agree with you and carry on trying it on blind to what you are saying.

UKAP however granted a forum so that models can give each other the heads up on the dodgy "producers" with wandering hands and I know for a fact that certain people have been bitching about this on other forums.

The way i see it, if you aint guilty, whats your problem?

Theres not really much more we can say on this matter.

...Is there?

[Paul Taylor]

Yeah totally Kim,
It's a shame models have to go through working for these people who do go mad and over board. But it doesnt effect the rest of us getting work as we all can provide references from people we have worked with to back us up, but it is the new girls that get caught out as they dont know to ask for things as proof.

I know this thread got abit off track in terms of UGLYDAZ original post, but I believe in being professional whether you are amateur or proffessional...

And whatever people reasons are being in this business doesnt matter,if this is your career and you are successful or make a living out it and everyone is happy.

People have to enjoy this job to do it like any other proffession, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying it either.

Just when people do, others are quick to jump and say that thats the only reason you are doing it, just because the content is in the sex industry, no shit.

Yes anyone with a camera can be in the industry but aslong as they arent expecting freebies and messing models about then I say welcome...

There's money to be made for all of us, even if you are a self employed producer/performer/photographer.

The only people that gives us a bad name is the people mentioned in the original post, dodgey togs. Once you get a year or so behind you, then you know who the genuine people are.

Paul

[fanboy]

What does gonzo /pov mean in british porn.In america its porn without a script.

[Masie]

Fanboy gonzo/pov in the Uk is sex with the camera man so it is shot literaly from the point of view of someone having sex.

I could not agree more with all of you who have condemed camera men sprining extras on models on the day of the shoot. However I do feel that in part this post has become a little bit narrow minded about where the line between proffessional and inappropriate communication lies. I like to build up a good friendly relationship with peopel who I work with and because of this would not be shocked if I got a text from a producer I have worked with saying something like, ' when can I get you back in for a good seeing to.' Both myself and said produce would be aware that I am happily in a relationship and would on the day expect to be treated fairly and proffessionaly, but a bit of light banter between people should not be frowned upon. I think I would find it alot harder to do hard b/g work with some some who was very mechanical in his approach to a scene and I dont think it would come across well on camera. Far easier to have abit of light happy teasing etc. Now obviously the above system relies upon me selectign who I work with carfuly and checking references but then we should all do that anyway. One of the things I love best about my job is how happy and relaxed everybody seems to be aroudn each other, id hate that to change and for peple to start worryign abotu offending each other.

[one eyed jack]

I agree with your points Masie. I'm not fussed because I dont have a rep for wandering hands or asking for extras because ipay out money and the movie always comes first. i've been propositioned a few times too and yes Ive got caught up in th emoment and would say i had a lapse because my dick made me do it (I didnt mean too. Honest. But the pussy was just there)

If this is the case then all a model has to say is "No" and that should be the end of it.

Asking for extrason the day is unprofessional but when it comes betwen a man and his hard on a hard on has no consciences and doesnt give a damn about professionalism ifhe wants to bone a girl.

Just like the old drugs campaign says: Just say no

[Columbia]

Its easy for those behind the camera or with a lucrative contract below their belt to suggest that it would be beneath them to offer their services in a provocative manner but how else can a model raise her profile? You can't deny that Porn is part of the sex industry and therefore close to prostitution (sorry for being controversial, a proverbial cat-among-the-pigeons). Ok its all in front of a camera and aimed at the third person but you are having sex so surely emotions are still involved?

[one eyed jack]

Ugly Daz

I dont think you understand the business if you have to draw comparisons with us here and them there.

The industry is just far bigger there and professionalism is not always at the core of most peoples business models there. they probbaly have more chancers setting themselves up per square mile than we do here.

Ive been told from Europe to USA that they have their fair share of time wasters and you can bet there will be more than enough people wanting extras because to some if a model fucks on film then she must fuck everybody else as well

I dont subscribe to that thought but I know for a lot of people they have a hard time seperating fantasy from reality

...and yes girls are getting put off all the time and dont go thinking the bigger the company the better they conduct themselves either. Certain so called high end companies are not about fun.

Just ask the girls.

No one is whiter than white and the business is what it is and always will be.

[Daz Savage]

You miss my point Jonone.
I am not having a go at amateurs or even the people who do god-knows-what to poor unsuspecting girls when they haven't got the sense to take precautions in this industry - I'm talking about how some of us market ourselves. We have professional models offering sexual services for cash without realizing this is what they're doing and good producers/photographers reducing themselves to the level of kerb-crawlers. We can't stop people parading as legitimate when really they're just in the 'I fuck models ha ha ha' club...
...but I can certainly complain about them.