egafd.com

"Well, for a start Ukip is not anti-immigration."

This is disingenuous. Their policy at the last election was to have a 5 year freeze on permanent settlement. UKIP has long campaigned on the horrors if immigration which is why they have had people from the English Democrats and the BNP joining their party.

"The other three main parties seem to be in favour of uncontrolled immigration from the EU"

Basically what you mean is that the Lib Dems, Labour and Tories support membership of the EU. Clearly that is 2 way traffic. Hundreds of thousands of British people have retired to southern Europe or work in EU countries.

What is UKIP.s message to those people when they pull out of the EU? "Tough guys. Those of you working in the EU can return to Britain and work in Poundland"

"Over here, we seem to be reluctant to deport foreign criminals"

This is incorrect. Foreign criminals get deported every day from the UK. The only cases that make the news are where people are allowed to stay by the courts.

I note with interest that you have totally ignored the vast majority of points I raised about UKIP in my posts which contain links to other posts.





So I assume you agree with the vast majority of my points about the EU? If so, you are accepting that your comments about UKIP supporting the working class are totally incorrect e.g. hammering social security, the public sector etc etc.

David Johnson wrote:

> "Well, for a start Ukip is not anti-immigration."
>
> This is disingenuous. Their policy at the last election was to
> have a 5 year freeze on permanent settlement. UKIP has long
> campaigned on the horrors if immigration which is why they have
> had people from the English Democrats and the BNP joining their
> party.
And David Cameron campaigned on a "cast iron promise" on the Lisbon Treaty ? things change.

>
> "The other three main parties seem to be in favour of
> uncontrolled immigration from the EU"
>
> Basically what you mean is that the Lib Dems, Labour and Tories
> support membership of the EU. Clearly that is 2 way traffic.
> Hundreds of thousands of British people have retired to
> southern Europe or work in EU countries.

British people went to live abroad long before the EU ??P.G. Wodehouse and Mrs Patrick Campbell both lived in France before the Second World War. I doubt any of the retirees live on the state in southern Europe.

>
> What is UKIP.s message to those people when they pull out of
> the EU? "Tough guys. Those of you working in the EU can return
> to Britain and work in Poundland"

Yes of course that's what they will do.


>
> "Over here, we seem to be reluctant to deport foreign
> criminals"
>
> This is incorrect. Foreign criminals get deported every day
> from the UK. The only cases that make the news are where
> people are allowed to stay by the courts.

As happened this week ?

>
> I note with interest that you have totally ignored the vast
> majority of points I raised about UKIP in my posts which
> contain links to other posts.
>
>
>
>
>
> So I assume you agree with the vast majority of my points about
> the EU? If so, you are accepting that your comments about UKIP
> supporting the working class are totally incorrect e.g.
> hammering social security, the public sector etc etc.

Abolishing maternity leave is not official party policy.

Your links just seem to open in another list of links.

"And David Cameron campaigned on a "cast iron promise" on the Lisbon Treaty ? things change".

This is what UKIP campaigned on. The relevant bit of their website on immigration shows "policy is under review" which means they haven't currently clarified their entire reason for being i.e. their policy on immigration.

"British people went to live abroad long before the EU ? P.G. Wodehouse and Mrs Patrick Campbell both lived in France before the Second World War. I doubt any of the retirees live on the state in southern Europe."

What you haven't grasped is that UKIP are not the only party in the EU that have concerns on immigration. If UKIP withdraw from the EU and stop free movement of labour, the British working in the EU will no longer have right of abode and to work and would have to apply for a permit. And I doubt if the Spanish government would look as favourably at the economic virtues of the British retirees as you do. Most British retirees seem to spend their money in British owned businesses and like all old people make disproportionate use of the health and social care systems.

"Abolishing maternity leave is not official party policy."

Read this, section 3.2



"UKIP proposes to vastly simplify this legislation. It would be up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave and this would be one of the items included in the standard employment contract (see above). An SME which refuses to offer parental leave will either have to offer young women higher salaries than other businesses which offer a long leave period or simply have to recruit from a smaller pool of potential employees."

This was repeated in an interview given by Godfrey Bloom of UKIP who plans to be our next Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Apologise for the error in your own time.


"our links just seem to open in another list of links"

Well spotted. They reference my posts in this thread including UKIP policies for hammering the welfare state and public sector. Hardly in the interests of the "genuine working class people" that you claim UKIP support?

Answer the points in order to defend your use of the word "drivel" to describe my views or at least have the guts to apologise.

David Johnson wrote:

> "And David Cameron campaigned on a "cast iron promise" on the
> Lisbon Treaty ? things change".
>
> This is what UKIP campaigned on. The relevant bit of their
> website on immigration shows "policy is under review" which
> means they haven't currently clarified their entire reason for
> being i.e. their policy on immigration.
>
> "British people went to live abroad long before the EU ? P.G.
> Wodehouse and Mrs Patrick Campbell both lived in France before
> the Second World War. I doubt any of the retirees live on the
> state in southern Europe."
>
> What you haven't grasped is that UKIP are not the only party in
> the EU that have concerns on immigration. If UKIP withdraw
> from the EU and stop free movement of labour, the British
> working in the EU will no longer have right of abode and to
> work and would have to apply for a permit.

What's wrong with that? There are plenty of non-EU citizens living and working in the UK ? Roman Abramovich, Kevin Spacey, Andrei Arshavin, Chicharito etc ? they all have to apply for work permits. If someone is good enough, a company will put themselves out.

And I doubt if the
> Spanish government would look as favourably at the economic
> virtues of the British retirees as you do. Most British
> retirees seem to spend their money in British owned businesses

Unlike eastern Europeans here who would never dream of spending their money in eastern European businesses.

> and like all old people make disproportionate use of the health
> and social care systems.

In the same way that aged Spaniards or Germans can use out health service.
>
> "Abolishing maternity leave is not official party policy."
>
> Read this, section 3.2
>
>
>
> "UKIP proposes to vastly simplify this legislation. It would
> be up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental
> leave and this would be one of the items included in the
> standard employment contract (see above). An SME which refuses
> to offer parental leave will either have to offer young women
> higher salaries than other businesses which offer a long leave
> period or simply have to recruit from a smaller pool of
> potential employees."
>
> This was repeated in an interview given by Godfrey Bloom of
> UKIP who plans to be our next Chancellor of the Exchequer.
>
> Apologise for the error in your own time.
>
No need to apologise ? that only refers to small and medium-sized businesses like a corner shop or a newsagents. It doesn't apply to Tesco or McDonald's and the like.
>


> "our links just seem to open in another list of links"
>
> Well spotted. They reference my posts in this thread including
> UKIP policies for hammering the welfare state and public
> sector. Hardly in the interests of the "genuine working class
> people" that you claim UKIP support?
>
> Answer the points in order to defend your use of the word
> "drivel" to describe my views or at least have the guts to
> apologise.

"What's wrong with that? There are plenty of non-EU citizens living and working in the UK ? Roman Abramovich, Kevin Spacey, Andrei Arshavin, Chicharito etc "

Okay what are the differences between Roman Abramovich and Fred the Brickie who works on a building site in Berlin? Abramovich has a nicer face, perhaps? No. It is because he is a billionaire and the other examples you give are wealthy people by any working people's standards. There is always a different set of rules for the wealthy and very wealthy.

"Unlike eastern Europeans here who would never dream of spending their money in eastern European businesses."

If you can't answer my point, no need to post examples of your twisted bitterness towards immigrants. I take that as a given.

"In the same way that aged Spaniards or Germans can use out health service."

Have you noticed hundreds of thousands of Spaniards that have retired to Torquay and Bournemouth then? That is the point!!!!!


"No need to apologise ? that only refers to small and medium-sized businesses like a corner shop or a newsagents. It doesn't apply to Tesco or McDonald's and the like".

I really like to see you try to wheedle out of admitting you are wrong.

You said it is not the official policy of UKIP to stop maternity leave. It is for SMEs. Secondly I suspect you have no idea about the definition of SMEs. SMEs is a term that is used in the EU and refers to all those businesses with less than 250 employees. Do you know many corner shops and newsagents who employ 200 people? In the UK there are more people employed by SMEs than corporates. THus the majority of UK workers would be affected by the UKIP policy.

Apologise in your own time. Alternatively give me a laugh by trying to wheedle out of it again! !wink!

You still haven't answered how you appear to think hammering public services, the social security system, employment law, giving a huge tax cut to the well off of between 15 and 20%, all of which UKIP has promised they will do, fits in with your concept of them "supporting genuine working class people".

David Johnson wrote:

> "What's wrong with that? There are plenty of non-EU citizens
> living and working in the UK ? Roman Abramovich, Kevin Spacey,
> Andrei Arshavin, Chicharito etc "
>
> Okay what are the differences between Roman Abramovich and Fred
> the Brickie who works on a building site in Berlin? Abramovich
> has a nicer face, perhaps? No. It is because he is a
> billionaire and the other examples you give are wealthy people
> by any working people's standards. There is always a different
> set of rules for the wealthy and very wealthy.

Remember Auf Wiedersehn Pet? No free movement of trade then but Oz and co still managed to "work on the site from morning to night"... There's no shortage of building jobs in this country anyway.


>
> "Unlike eastern Europeans here who would never dream of
> spending their money in eastern European businesses."
>
> If you can't answer my point, no need to post examples of your
> twisted bitterness towards immigrants. I take that as a given.

I'm not bitter towards immigrants. I'm married to one.

>
> "In the same way that aged Spaniards or Germans can use out
> health service."
>
> Have you noticed hundreds of thousands of Spaniards that have
> retired to Torquay and Bournemouth then? That is the
> point!!!!!

And again, Britons retired to Spain before the free movement of trade.

>
>
> "No need to apologise ? that only refers to small and
> medium-sized businesses like a corner shop or a newsagents. It
> doesn't apply to Tesco or McDonald's and the like".
>
> I really like to see you try to wheedle out of admitting you
> are wrong.
>
> You said it is not the official policy of UKIP to stop
> maternity leave. It is for SMEs. Secondly I suspect you have
> no idea about the definition of SMEs. SMEs is a term that is
> used in the EU and refers to all those businesses with less
> than 250 employees. Do you know many corner shops and
> newsagents who employ 200 people? In the UK there are more
> people employed by SMEs than corporates. THus the majority of
> UK workers would be affected by the UKIP policy.

That may be what SMEs refers to in the EU but in the real world it refers to small businesses. Companies that employ 200 people are not small. In any case, why would we want to use EU definitions for anything? The same EU that insists that ingredients on shampoo bottles are written in Latin...


>
> Apologise in your own time. Alternatively give me a laugh by
> trying to wheedle out of it again! !wink!
>
> You still haven't answered how you appear to think hammering
> public services, the social security system, employment law,
> giving a huge tax cut to the well off of between 15 and 20%,
> all of which UKIP has promised they will do, fits in with your
> concept of them "supporting genuine working class people".

Public services and the social security system need reforming ? of that there is no doubt. I don't see that paying enormous amounts of your earnings in tax is somehow noble or desirable. No one should pay more in tax than they are left with. This government and the last seems to think that people who earn ?50,000 a year or more are rich. They aren't. Under Labour in the 70s income tax was 98p in the pound. Mrs Thatcher brought that down to 60p ? still far to much. Or do you think that an income tax rate that leaves you with tuppence is justifiable? That was a 38.78 per cent pay cut for "the well off" ? much bigger than a flat tax would bring in.

Arginald Valleywater wrote:

> Of course Mr and Mrs Balls aka the real Nu Labor leaders
> weren't educated in top class unis....they worked down a mine
> and got their hands dirty...
>
> Ed Balls...Keble Oxford then Harvard...Harvard is where the
> ultra rich Americans send their kids....
>
> Yvette Cooper....Baliol Oxford, Harvard, LSE. All full of
> factory workers kids....
>
> Whatever happened to real lower class people? Who out of the
> shadow cabinet is from a social housing, non university
> educated background? I have friends who used to vote Labour but
> won't now because the current front bench is full of upper
> middle class affluent pseudo intellectuals.

I don't mind the university education, but where are the ones succeeding in the education system from humble origins, with no money in the family to pay for toff school? There are some older ones around, but with the demise of the grammar schools that avenue has turned into a Bolivian mountain pass.

This is a really pathetic answer. I will correct you and then leave you to wallow in your almost total ignorance.

"Remember Auf Wiedersehn Pet? No free movement of trade then but Oz and co still managed to "work on the site from morning to night"..."

Wrong. Britain joined the EEC in January 73. Auf Wiedersehn Pet was set in later times, namely the 80s..

There's no shortage of building jobs in this country anyway."

Ludicrously wrong. The construction industry has collapsed since the recession started. The industry contracted by 8% in 2012 alone.

"I'm not bitter towards immigrants. I'm married to one"

Wrong. You are continually banging on about them. Must be partly to do with your marriage. !wink!

"And again, Britons retired to Spain before the free movement of trade."

Correct but totally misleading. Hundreds of thousands of Brits retired to Spain after we joined the EEC in the early 70s on the back of the advent of cheap flights and package holidays introducing people to southern Spain.

"That may be what SMEs refers to in the EU but in the real world it refers to small businesses. Companies that employ 200 people are not small. In any case, why would we want to use EU definitions for anything? The same EU that insists that ingredients on shampoo bottles are written in Latin..."

Hilariously wrong stuff from you again. THanks for giving me yet another belly laugh. The definition of SMEs I gave you is used THROUGHOUT the EU including Britain. The Office of National Statistics uses this definition for its work. 58% of the population in the UK work with SMEs.

Ever thought of doing comedy?

"Public services and the social security system need reforming ? of that there is no doubt. I don't see that paying enormous amounts of your earnings in tax is somehow noble or desirable."

Now you are just waffling. What you think about public sector and social security cuts is NOT the point. THe point is that working class people make most use of public services and the working poor make most use of housing benefit and tax credits etc etc so reductions in social security and public services effects them disproportionately compared to the well-off.

I will bale out of this now. Much of your post is completely, ill-informed dross.

David Johnson wrote:

> This is a really pathetic answer. I will correct you and then
> leave you to wallow in your almost total ignorance.
>
> "Remember Auf Wiedersehn Pet? No free movement of trade then
> but Oz and co still managed to "work on the site from morning
> to night"..."
>
> Wrong. Britain joined the EEC in January 73. Auf Wiedersehn
> Pet was set in later times, namely the 80s..

And yet no influx or egress of workers to or from Europe...

>
> There's no shortage of building jobs in this country anyway."
>
> Ludicrously wrong. The construction industry has collapsed
> since the recession started. The industry contracted by 8% in
> 2012 alone.

Really? Don't know about Blackpool but my part of Essex is awash with building sites ? all putting up new houses and flats. I don't think robots are doing the building...

>
> "I'm not bitter towards immigrants. I'm married to one"
>
> Wrong. You are continually banging on about them. Must be
> partly to do with your marriage. !wink!

Yes you are totally right because you know exactly what I'm thinking...


>
> "And again, Britons retired to Spain before the free movement
> of trade."
>
> Correct but totally misleading. Hundreds of thousands of Brits
> retired to Spain after we joined the EEC in the early 70s on
> the back of the advent of cheap flights and package holidays
> introducing people to southern Spain.

Thank you.

>
> "That may be what SMEs refers to in the EU but in the real
> world it refers to small businesses. Companies that employ 200
> people are not small. In any case, why would we want to use EU
> definitions for anything? The same EU that insists that
> ingredients on shampoo bottles are written in Latin..."
>
> Hilariously wrong stuff from you again. THanks for giving me
> yet another belly laugh. The definition of SMEs I gave you is
> used THROUGHOUT the EU including Britain. The Office of
> National Statistics uses this definition for its work. 58% of
> the population in the UK work with SMEs.

Yes and local councils refer to lampposts as street lighting columns ? it doesn't mean that the rest of us have to take note of their nonsense.


>
> Ever thought of doing comedy?

I'll leave that to you...
>
> "Public services and the social security system need reforming
> ? of that there is no doubt. I don't see that paying enormous
> amounts of your earnings in tax is somehow noble or desirable."
>
> Now you are just waffling. What you think about public sector
> and social security cuts is NOT the point. THe point is that
> working class people make most use of public services and the
> working poor make most use of housing benefit and tax credits
> etc etc so reductions in social security and public services
> effects them disproportionately compared to the well-off.

Life is unfair and your dream of a socialist utopia will never come true.
>
> I will bale out of this now. Much of your post is completely,
> ill-informed dross.

But no defence of the 98p in the pound tax level introduced by Labour...

Do carry on without me, defending your views.

I have been showing some mates your posts. They are falling about laughing and particularly love these comments:

1. Construction in Britain must be doing well with loads of jobs because there are lots of building sites in Essex.

2. The acronym SME which stands for SMALL MEDIUM ENTERPRISE businesses only refers to corner shops and newsagents and it is EU speak to make it refer to anything else even though the definition is used throughout the UK.

3. And they particularly loved the concept that anyone who believes that it is wrong that the public sector and social security should be hammered to give large tax cuts to the wealthy is demanding a Socialist Utopia.

They have asked me to email any other funny posts you make. So keep posting, but preferably without me cos I am bored now.

CHeerio!!