How does the porn industry work?

[Dave Wells]

"Sorry to sound boring Dave but if you owned a shed load of content you could've rinsed it silly during the gold rush period of the internet."

answer............Never had the money myself to shoot content really apart from a few scenes shot with Strand Films in mid 90's which didn't prove very fruitful (well for me anyhow!).

"Surely you thought back then that all that would have come to an end or did you not think past the huge pay cheques thinking it would last forever ?

answer............Yes I did myself predict the future 10 years ago, but thought that talent, ability and experience would always keep me employed - probably stupidly !

"You're too angry at the porn industry Dave that maybe its time to just knock it on the head before you end up hating the world."

answer.............You may be right but it's more a case of me being mis-read ! Plus I've tried getting out and finding a 'proper' job. Trust me Terry, there ain't none matey when you've got nothing but 28 years in porn as a C.V. That's why I'm on benefits and trying to sell old mags.

[Dave Wells]

P.s Just to clear up. The $6000 budgets were used up with what we shot a fair bit e.g using places like Longleat Hs, Brocket Hall, Ragley Hall and such used to cost ?1000 to hire, we had a crew of about 8 people (remember just for stills this was), and sometimes a cast of 3/4 models (who even then got the lions share). So we would split whatever was left 80-20 % (me being the 20% of course) so please don't think I was rich in the 80's. I would end up with about ?200 quid from that $6000 !!

[Sam Slater]

Then your problem is with government and society in general. You SHOULD be able to sell stuff on iTunes and HMV. I'm just not buying the 'it's because of pirates and freebie hunters' shite. Some gaming developers have actually made more money putting their stuff up on torrent sites. They found more people played the game and then bought it.

I know that sounds weird but it's a real, viable business strategy by some, now.

[jimslip]

Sam Slater wrote:

> Then your problem is with government and society in general.
> You SHOULD be able to sell stuff on iTunes and HMV. I'm just
> not buying the 'it's because of pirates and freebie hunters'
> shite. Some gaming developers have actually made more money
> putting their stuff up on torrent sites. They found more people
> played the game and then bought it.
>
> I know that sounds weird but it's a real, viable business
> strategy by some, now.

It's so easy sitting there spitting bile at all in the porn industry, Sam, but I'm afraid your analogy between us and the gaming industry is utter tosh. The only similarity is that both are available on the internet and that's where it ends. App store also works in this way, ie offering Apps for free to start and developers make $millions and good luck to them.

Your flippant comment, "Your problem is with government and society as a whole", even from your armchair, you'd have to agree is quite a momentous "Problem" for the good folk of porn to overcome.

Oh by the way do you really think none of us are offering stuff for free on torrent sites? You forget it was the pioneers of porn that actually DROVE the internet to what it is today. Unlike your plucky gamers, we have a massive pile of obstacles placed in front of us!

[David Johnson]

"Then your problem is with government and society in general."

I feel sure the above will be encouraging words for Mr Slip. He should be able to get that sorted by the middle of next week.

" You SHOULD be able to sell stuff on iTunes and HMV."

Yes and I should be a millionaire. But it mighn't happen.

" I'm just not buying the 'it's because of pirates and freebie hunters' shite".

Well in terms of Jim's business, given the unlikelihood of the "problem with government and society in general" being dealt with in the near future (in fact the signs are that the position of porno is getting worse rather than better in terms of government acceptance) then Jim is entirely correct, it seems to me, that realistically, the main problem with the industry at the moment is piracy.

And if the industry can make progress on the area of piracy it will be a big help whilst Jim awaits changes to society and he can make some big deals in Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East.

Cheers
D

[Trumpton]

You will find that porn 'producers' believe that they are presenting us with films of the quality Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger and somehow their films must be protected for the betterment of our nation.

[andy ide]

It strikes me that that the best protection for anyone who owns and runs a porn website is USP. I know this has always been said, that niche sites are where it's at, but surely this is more the case now than ever before.

As a middle-aged consumer (and porn producer who doesn't have a site of his own), I've gone through phases of liking different types of porn since I was a teenager. And from that experience I think that when you're young you generally just like looking at pretty girls doing naughty things. As you get older your appetites become more specific. This is surely where the money is to be made -- older generations with more money in their pockets who know what they like and don't want to faff around with other stuff.

In fact, if you can offer something that's so bloody brilliant compared to anything else around you can get away with murder. I'm currently subscribed to a site which is very much a one-man-band operation and he's fucking terrible at updating it. Promises that something's going to be up the next day and it doesn't appear etc. But the stuff he makes is incredible. Literally unique and jaw-dropping. He mentioned recently that he'd just broken the 20,000 threshold. He could be lying through his teeth. He probably isn't. He and his site are probably one of the few current examples of porn profiteering as it used to be -- get the punter hooked and it doesn't matter how you treat him, he'll always be back for more. The difference is now that you really have to offer something that the punter can't get anywhere else to give yourself the necessary degree of security.

[andy ide]

What a beautiful thought, Trumpton. A porn movie made by Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger. That's the kind of Blighty smut I'd like to see.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]It's so easy sitting there spitting bile at all in the porn industry, Sam,[/quote]

I wasn't 'spitting bile' so chill out. But yes, you're right. If I was it would be easy. I'd also say it's just as easy to blame pirates for flagging sales.

[quote]but I'm afraid your analogy between us and the gaming industry is utter tosh. [/quote]

It wasn't supposed to be an analogy. I was using gaming developers as an example of how they've tried new strategies. It wasn't an answer on how pornographers can make money again but to point out that game developers were saying the exact same thing about pirate sites 3 or 4 years ago (they were the cause of lower profits) but now think differently and use torrent sites as part of their business plan.

It may or may not be the way to go for porn and I'm not for or against going that route.

[quote]Your flippant comment, "Your problem is with government and society as a whole", even from your armchair, you'd have to agree is quite a momentous "Problem" for the good folk of porn to overcome.[/quote]

It wasn't flippant. I meant it quite literally. You seem to agree.........oh, and I typed it from an armless chair. It swivels though.

[quote]Oh by the way do you really think none of us are offering stuff for free on torrent sites?[/quote]

No, I don't think that.

[quote]You forget it was the pioneers of porn that actually DROVE the internet to what it is today.[/quote]

'I forget'? What do you mean, 'I forget'? Porn, in my opinion, DID help drive the internet, and many of the technologies related to it. I never said otherwise.

One last thing: I was at a gay bar once with a few friends and got talking to an old guy. He said "look at 'em [young gays flouncing about on the dancefloor], you'd think they'd invented the bloody thing! [being gay]." I suppose what I'm trying to tell you is look up the word 'pioneer'.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]then Jim is entirely correct, it seems to me, that realistically, the main problem with the industry at the moment is piracy.
[/quote]

How do you come to the conclusion what the 'main' problem is? You see, as Jim pointed out, and which I realize, porn is different to music/games/movies/apps/literature in that there are many more avenues open for selling it. If these avenues were open the same way for porn then they'd be on a level playing field with those other forms of entertainment and could make money in the same ways.

Thus, I believe the main reason that porn is in the state it's in is due to government policies and the social attitudes to consuming porn. As you and Jim allude to, these policies and attitudes are much harder to fight, but they are real and the underlying problem (which I'd call the 'main problem'). If you don't want to call it the 'main problem' then fine, but we'd just be arguing semantics.

Of course, the easiest and quickest way of making porn profitable again would be making it illegal..............ya know, like piracy. But it's ok to break the law when you're shooting a porn flick, innit?