Multiculturalism has failed, says Cameron...

[andy at handiwork]

I would say that wondering if you might appear racist wearing a kilt to a wedding is the least of it.

[Dick Moby]

Please explain.

[David Johnson]

"Most were Saudi Arabian, United Arab Emirati, and Pakistani. Now why would a Saudi Arabian kill Americans because of what some Palestinians are having to put up with? Like an onion we can peel away all the reasons that are easy to see, and obvious (America's support of Zionist expansion) but the underlying reason a Pakistani cares so much about what's happening in Palestine, and why he/she's willing to die and kill others in their cause is because of religion. Pure and simple religion."

I don't agree with the statement that it is "pure and simple religion". Even considering underlying reasons, it is much more complex than that. People make a similar mistake when putting the Northern Ireland Troubles purely down to religion.

The British and Americans have been playing geo-political power games in the Arab countries for decades and decades. So Saddam is the good guy as far as the West is concerned as long as he is at war with Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. When he steps out of line, they invade Iraq and hundreds and thousands die. Mubarak and the King of Saudi Arabia run cruel dictatorships where people's freedoms are ruthlessly suppressed but it pays the West to have these people in power so let's not rock the boat. The Taliban are the good guys who we arm when they are fighting the Ruskis but they become the bad guys as soon as they have "terrorist" training camps in Afghanistan.

Clearly, any interpretation of the Islamic religion, one of the world's great religions, that supports the stoning of women, the amputation of thieves' hands, the hatred of Christians is not a correct one any more than the Christian fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible should support the shooting of an abortionist. However, political actions have had a major part to play.

"Now why would a Saudi Arabian kill Americans because of what some Palestinians are having to put up with?"

Why would British troops help the Americans to kill Afghanis for what people in New York experienced in 9/11? Why did Britain, Poland and Afghanistan support the American invasion of Iraq?

A perceived shared set of beliefs and identities perhaps?

"Supporting Israel and the Iraqi/Afghan wars certainly haven't helped, but I think it's wrong to say/imply they are the main cause of Muslim terrorists."

I think that British involvement in the Iraqi/Afghan wars and the ongoing support of Israel is the main (not the only) cause of the terrorist attacks in the UK as the security sources in the UK predicted. Prior to 9/11 and the subsequent military actions by the UK there were no terrorist attacks in the UK by Muslim extremists.

Cheers
D

[andy at handiwork]

Kilts. Slightly ridiculous at the best of times, unless you are Scottish, in Scotland and are built like a brick shit-house; but at a wedding, total no-no. Now you explain how you could have even entertained the thought that wearing one could be construed as racist?

[max_tranmere]

David, you had hard-left inner city councils that were very influential. Britain was brought to its knees in 1979 by Socialism, and the nutty Left were still prominant in Labour up until Neil Kinnock expelled them in the mid-1980s. You can have an administraion in power, then it leaves office, but there is still a hangover from that previous period during the next period. We now have the ConDems as the Government but still have, and will for years, Unite against Fascism, the Unite union, etc.

[max_tranmere]

David, I think the absense of criticsm towards certain people confirms that many people view those people as not being a problem. If people talk about how multiculturalism has failed and go on and on about muslims then they imply, by the fact others aren't mentioned, that those other communties are largely intergrated and are not part of what brought about the comment 'multiculturalism has failed'. Most races and religons seem to have integrated, black people and Sikhs are probably the best examples. The fact those people are not mentioned when people talk about the thing having failed suggests the people talking about it view those communities as having settled and been absorbed into the British way of life without too much of an issue. When people go on about this they generally mention muslims. Even the far-right, who years ago went on about everyone, but now you never hear them mention black people, only muslims.

[frankthring]

I know I am a late entrant in this splendid debate, but I must say that,
argue as I do sometimes with Mr Jim Slip, on this one I back him 100%.
Your blogs listed above say it all my dear chap !
Personally, as a grumpy old man, a dinosaur and a proud imperalist, I
believe the Union Jack is a flag for all British citizens of whatever race,
colour or creed, not to be kidnapped by neo-Nazis, subverted by
them for political gain, or reviled by others of a different faith or outlook.
Sorry, but the namby mamby leftwing policy of letting diverse
ethnic/religious societies in Britain do "their own thing", provided they
did not break the Law, has been seen to fail. These same people,
especially Moslems, need to accept British core values, and be seen to do
so by others.
Regarding your comments, Mr Slip, about the Union flag being taken from
us by the skinhead fascists, and further comments by others, that its now
OK to wave the flag, I thought you might like to know about Anna Lee in
Hollywood.
A blonde beauty, Anna Lee, was the British heroine of several wartime
pictures, most notably in John Ford`s classic story of the Welsh mines,
"How Green Was My Valley" !
She stayed on in Hollywood into old age, forgotten and a widow, but she
never gave up her British citizenship, though the American authorities
pressed her. During the height of the IRA bombing campaign in Britain in
the 1980`s, and strong pro-Irish sympathies in the States, she would
hoist the Union Jack on a flagpole in her garden every St Patrick`s Day
and painted a large Union Jack on the roof with the words, "God Save
The Queen And Death To The IRA". When asked why she did this Ms
Lee replied, "I am proud of my country and my flag. If the IRA want me
now they know where to find me !"

[max_tranmere]

Jim, in terms of saying "I'm proud of my country" people tend to fly the flag from the part of the UK they are from, and that is regarded as ok nowdays. The English flag on cars and out of windows, in England, when England are playing football, etc. The Scottish or Welsh flag in those respective places during football, etc. Since the Britpop music thing in the 1990's if a famous English band now wanted to have an English flag painted on a guitar, hanging at the back of the stage, on a tour prgramme, etc, no one would say anything. Years ago they would have been seen by many as a 'far-right band' and vilified, thankfully that has changed in the last 16-17 years and I am very pleased about that. I can't think of many cases of the Union Flag having been flown by bands and there is no cause to fly it for football, but the Labour party used it a lot from 1994 onwards after Blair became leader and it appeared a lot a few years later with Blair's 'Cool Britannia' thing, and lots of magazines used it on their cover in conjunction with that. Tony Blair did a lot to make flag-flying acceptable and not frowned upon. Back in the 1970s and 1980s it was a definate no-no. so things HAVE changed since the 1990's and it is great that they have.

[max_tranmere]

Frank, a courageous lady. Most people who criticised the IRA were rubbed out. Remember the British politican Ian Gow? He slagged them off all the time on TV and in the press, he said they could keep doing what they do but they would never ever win, and then BOOM! A bomb killed Ian Gow outside his house.

[Dick Moby]

Given that you find kilts ridiculous unless worn by large Scottish men living in Scotland, what is your view on the lovely Arab gentlemen coming out of Finsbury Park mosque wearing their nightshirts?
A large proportion of men at a Scottish wedding now wear the kilt but you find that unacceptable. Can give me the benefit of your fashion flair and tell me what exactly I should wear -------- Top hat and tails maybe?
The racist part is simply in reply to jimslip ?Imagine if you flew the Union flag, not the Cross of St George, but the Union Jack, outside your house, I'm sure nowadays you'd be branded a racist nutter.?