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'A moderate Muslim that is tolerant of homosexuality, for instance, may be looked upon as a bad Muslim by others of the faith but he/she would still class themselves as Muslim.'

The above quote of mine isn't radical or 'out there' in any way. I though it pretty obvious, just like evangelicals and some Catholics turn there noses up at the Anglican church for admitting gays and women. It's more like a general truth about all groups. Stalinists thought Trotskyites bad communists and vice versa. It was more about creating a scene to show Peter that generalisations are wrong and cannot for the life of me work out why it's brushed you up the wrong way.

This 'theory' of mine hardly makes me 'obsessed with Islam'.

[quote]You've come out with lots of tidy little theories about how Muslims think and act about issues as though they are a homogenous group with people with the same language and culture.[/quote]

Don't be silly. My original post to Peter was explaining how some Muslims may see more liberal Muslims as 'bad'. That there is admitting both conservative and liberal Muslims and flies directly in the face of your 'theory' on what I think/say about them. How can I be lumping them all in together when I specifically talk about two different mind-sets within the religion?

Also, I find it weird that you accuse me of generalising in reply to a post I gave explaining why people should be careful when.....err...... generalising! Do you actually read through my posts or are you just being difficult for the sake of it?

You talk about me speculating on Muslims, and all this after your speculation and conjectures surrounding Akmal Shaikh and what mentally ill people are and are not capable of.

You're puddled.

[quote]I was speculating about an individual with a known psychiatric illness.[/quote]

So Akmal Shaikh had a 'known psychiatric illness' now? And you did generalise about what people with mental illness can and cannot do, completely ignoring the fact that most mental illnesses have different degrees of seriousness and affect victims differently. But that's another topic, I just brought it up to show your hypocrisy.

[quote]You were and have often been speculating about a very big group of people of diverse cutures, race and nationality based on their comon religion, based on what you suppose they would think and do.[/quote]

Ah, so you don't read my posts and you are just being difficult. I already explained to you that my original example to Peter mentioned both liberal and conservative Muslims. That is NOT basing their opinions based on their common religion. You fail.

Sam Slater wrote:

I already explained to you that my original example
> to Peter mentioned both liberal and conservative Muslims.

To jump back in here, my original point was that liberal, conservative, bad muslims and christians, etc, are by some peoples definitions, not muslims, christians at all, they're just playing at it, so it is perfectly valid for those to say that "all christians hate gays", as those who do not are not christians in their eyes.

[quote]Yes Akmal Shaikh had a history of bi-polar disorder.[/quote]

You didn't seem to acknowledge this much during the debate on the Chinese killing him.

[quote]You have to generalise about symptoms of a disorder in order to be able to include everybody and and every variation if at all possible.[/quote]

But you cannot do so if you're talking about convicting someone of a crime. You did.

[quote]You were generalising and have generalised about how Muslims think and act, it's called cultural stereotyping.[/quote]

No I wasn't. I was giving examples of how some Muslims may act/think.

[quote]So Muslims can be defined as liberal or conservative according to you?[/quote]

Some Muslims, yes, but there are many levels of liberalism and conservatism and these levels are very subjective. Are you saying there are no liberal or conservative Muslims?

[quote]I think most Muslims would tell you to f*ck-off for applying our shitty Western values to them anyway.[/quote]

You can think what you like. I think that in itself is as much of a generalisation as the one you're trying to pull me up on. Again, hypocritical.

And what are the 'shitty western values' you're referring to?

[quote]To jump back in here, my original point was that liberal, conservative, bad muslims and christians, etc, are by some peoples definitions, not muslims, christians at all, they're just playing at it, so it is perfectly valid for those to say that "all christians hate gays",[/quote]

Indeed, but what you're then doing is using your own personal definition of a Muslim and then attaching some behavioural traits to it. Anyone who you don't consider a Muslim my consider themselves one and so your assessment of Muslims, from their point of view, includes them, despite their own personal beliefs and acts. To avoid this mistake I think it's polite to be more specific.