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?Out of interest: is anyone brave enough to admit they supported the invasion back in 2003??

Yes, I supported it. I was under no illusions about WMD. It was clear to me from the mood music emanating out of Washington in the 12 months prior to the invasion that the Bush administration were going to get Saddam and put him out of business no matter what. They just needed some kind of credible excuse (WMD). But this wasn?t a problem for me at all. There were many reasons why kicking Saddam's ass would be an excellent idea.

1) He was thumbing his nose at the West and those soppy, corrupt, UN twats.

2) Taking military action to remove Saddam's regime would also intimidate any other irrational, incompetent, third world nutters who might have been under the illusion that we in the west were now all soppy, divi, hand wringing, self flagellating, Nancy boys who were no longer worthy of respect ? the sort of softies one can laugh at and take advantage of.

3) If Saddam was removed the people of Iraq could elect a democratic government ? much like our western democracies (and Israel?s, for that matter). The west?s oil supply (on which the lives we enjoy depend) would be much more stable and the price of a barrel would be much less subject to the damaging fluctuations of a jittery market - and furthermore, everyone would live happily ever after.

I genuinely believed it was all for the best and the Iraqi people would be happy and grateful to have Saddam's yoke removed from their shoulders. How wrong I was. But the ensuing events have been a lesson to me ? a lesson about human nature, the nature of the Iraqi people and the nature of Islam. Never again will I automatically ascribe rationality and competence to people who show no visible sighs of civil society and economic achievement. The Iraqis were given a chance and they blew it away. T?fuck with ?em I say.

I have a radical solution to this debacle. Free Saddam, re-install him as a puppet leader and give him Carte blache to repress and subdue (with the most extreme prejudice) all those divi murdering, bombing, Kalashnikov firing fuzzy-wuzzies who daily darken the streets of Baghdad. It would be better than they deserve.



Officer Dibble ? no time for any nonsense.

Climb off the fence, Officer, and tell us what you really think.

There's that old adage about nature abhorring a vacuum. Iraq has had a maniac egotistical tosspot in charge for decades, and all the wannabes are pushing their cases. Is that any reason why Mr and Mrs Ordinary Iraqi should suffer?

20 years ago, the same "aw fuck 'em" attitude existed with regard to Northern Ireland, another berth where British troops were left feeling less than welcome.

If we bring them back, or leave them in place, the damage is already done. Fighting for democracy has become the new "We have God on our side."

Regarding this supposed 650,000 dead in Iraq. Do I care? Well, yes, of course. I care just as much as the man on the Clapham omnibus. I care no less than Joe Average shuffling up the High St on a grey Saturday afternoon, and I?m as cut up about is as Cheryl Chav, manning the till at Tesco, but dreaming of a better life being used and abused by some chortling geezers in a shitty, low-rent, porn movie.



Officer Dibble ? no time for any nonsense.

mart wrote:

>>


Insightful, mart. I mean insightful. My mistake. But I think you knew that, and the fact that you're reduced merely to criticising spelling errors shows just what little you have to offer to a debate.

I don't dismiss "constructive criticism" from you as "negative", mart, because you never seem to put forward any constructive criticism to dismiss. Your sole retorts in the vast majority of cases seem to be merely variations of "Oh thats a typical (insert FP name of choice) statement, what a pile of shite" and nothing more.

Sam Slater wrote:

> Damnit! To be fair, I'm just a northern monkey......if only I
> was from London hey SBB?

OK, OK... it was meant as a wind-up. In best back-tracking bigot style: some of best my friends are Northerners you know!

Face-to-face killing is clearly more deadly than aerial bombardment.

What was the death toll in Dresden?

Officer Dibble wrote:

> 1) He was thumbing his nose at the West and those soppy,
> corrupt, UN twats.

Thumbing his nose - oooo the bitch! Definitely worth a war then.

> 2) Taking military action to remove Saddam's regime would also
> intimidate any other irrational, incompetent, third world
> nutters

Oh yeah, it worked a treat in North Korea!

> 3) If Saddam was removed the people of Iraq could elect a
> democratic government

Shame the reality ain't quite like the dream.

> I genuinely believed it was all for the best and the Iraqi
> people would be happy and grateful to have Saddam's yoke
> removed from their shoulders. How wrong I was.

No - actually for once you were right. The Iraqi people hated Saddam. The problem began with the complete incompetence of the coalition in creating a stable government, and the discovery that the US troops were building permanent bases rather than giving the keys back to the Iraqi people and going home. The only thing worse than a home-grown dictator is a foreign dictator.

Ok I'm over it!....................You big shandy drinkin poofter! !laugh!

>Face-to-face killing is clearly more deadly than aerial bombardment.

What was the death toll in Dresden?

From memory I think it was about 35,000.