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Clearly you are right, Mike. Iraq is in a state of civil war. Sadly all that has happened is that it has gone from a secular dictatorship to an Islamic one. British and American service personel were not being killed there when Saddam was in charge.

I have read about the talk of civil war but this has been dismissed by officials from the Iraq goverment. They say "it is not the case"

But if you read the history of Iraq it has always been in conflict.


t

Yes you are right but Saddam kept a lid on it, in much the same way Tito did in the former Yugoslavia.

David,
Thank you. Saddam was put in place by the Americans to stop the spread of religious Muslim fundamentalism.
Mike Freeman.

Buttman,

Of course this puppet government will deny civil war is taking place but the sad truth is that Iraq is not ruled by the Iraqui government but by the Muslim fundamentalists who have taken control.

Mike Freeman.

But I can't be in support of people who go around killing and bombing it is not a democratic system, it is not representative of the people of Iraq.

Most of the country seems to be a firm and stable.

I point to http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage take alook, if there was civil war it would be front page news.


t


It must true, I seen it on the tv!

fudgeflaps wrote: [quote]Earth was maybe made in 6.9835642 picoseconds.[/quote]

I think you mean the Universe, not Earth !teacher! !wink!

Only a theory remember, though a very good theory nonetheless!

I've read all your posts carefully.

Mike and fudgeflaps have differing views but you both make excellent points.

You are both correct and incorrect at the same time though as we are all individuals. Some kids may benefit from Religious Education and some may not. I'm not a religious person and since I've been 12 years old I figured 'God' didn't exist. It won't take long for a child to see that most religions are just stories that teach moral value's.

Nearly all religions are based on moral laws. Laws that everyone knows are wrong from a very early age.

Experements on children as young as five understand moral law years before society ingrains all the other laws we live within everyday of our lives. For instance if a teacher tell a 5 year old child 'not to paint on the wall' that child knows it's wrong to do so. If the teacher tells the child he/she's now allowed to do so then he/she will know it's ok to do so.
Now that same 5 year old child will know it's wrong to hit another 5 year old for no reason, regardless of if the teacher allows it or not. In actual fact it's the child who's worked out it's wrong to harm another instinctively and doesn't need an adult to spell that out, (this is of course if the child has no mental illness or other emotional issues). Five year old's 'do' hit eachother, but it's usually over some property (like a toy), jealousy, or provacation. These are adult reasons for harming others also.

What has this got to do with religion? Answer: Nothing! (which is exactly my point)

The general human being knows instinctively whats right & wrong to some degree and though nurture plays a big part, it doesn't go and 'make' a person strap explosives to themselves and blow innocent people up. The will to do so was allready within their genetic make-up. Religion was just the excuse.

I don't think religion has anything to do with racism either. This may be hard to swallow in modern society but racism is as natural to a human being as sex & food. Thats not to say it's right! It's just instinct to preserve the line of genes you have.

Theres a saying:

I put my children before my brothers, my brothers before my cousins, my cousins before my neighbours and my neighbours before strangers.

The further away genetically you are from someone the less you'll care about them. It's not a concious decision, it's natures way of protecting your bloodline. These modern times of course make these natural instincts obsolete, but remember we've only lived in a cosmopolitan society for 50 years or so. Our human survival instincts are 3.5 million years old and without them we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

What we have to ask is:

If African tribes had invented gunpowder and sea vessels whereby Europeans had sticks & stones, does anyone not agree that Europeans would have been the slaves of yesteryear? Black tribes made slaves of neighbouring tribes for thousands of years before Europeans even visited.

There are no 'evil' people, only 'evil acts' commited by the uneducated and confused, acting on a human instinct thats kept us from becoming just another 'extinct ape'.

So though I'm not religious, I say children should be taught the 'language', 'culture' and 'religion' of the family they belong to. Banning religion will not stop war or terrorism, these people will find anothr excuse.

Religion gave rules in which to live by, gave answers to mankinds biggest questions, and gave people a comfort that someone was watching over them. As soon as we became the most successful species on this planet we did our utmost to invent all manner of religions so we had something to look up to. These days we have science and education. These will slowly take over from religion but it will not be anytime soon..........

Hi Buttmovies.

"Most of the country seems firm and stable" you say!

Thank you for the Aljazeera link it is very interesting but if you read between the lines they are talking about civil war between the two Muslim factions in the front page articles. They say they are tring to prevent a civil war but I think that most Western observers think that it has already begun.


What you see on domestic TV is propaganda too!
Mike Freeman.

Sam,

Thank you for your email. However I have made myself perfectly clear what I believe and I have covered the points you have made. Finally you say that you believe that children should be taught the religion of their parents but as I have stated teaching religion to children is indoctrination, not education, and this is the cycle of divisiveness that should be broken.

You have assumed that I am an atheist but I retain an open mind to the question of a supreme intelligence in the universe and I certainly do not believe that it was merely chance that produced life.

Most people in this country are secular especially the younger generation and if we are going to be rational we must cast off the superstitions of our forefathers and move into the 21st century. We do not need religions to tell us what is morally right or wrong.

Racism is fear and ignorance. There is only one human race .
Mike Freeman.