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Well, this HAS been an interesting thread...!

Didn't quite expect this many replies - most make a lot of sense, but others make non whatsoever...

For example, it's postulated by a couple of people that the US producers of 'aggression porn' are homosexuals (or at least repressed in that sense) - for those of you who actually subscribe to that 'interesting' notion, here is one simple question:

Have you even met a gay person?!!!

Gay men, contrary to what some might believe, do NOT hate women, they're just not ATTRACTED to them - honestly, I'm pretty certain that there is a difference!

A somewhat homophobic, knee-jerk reaction from some of you methinks - and you know what they say about homophobes...!!

I pretty certain even repressed homosexual men don't turn into rampant misogynists...just sad, unhappy individuals who hide behind a mask of apparent 'straightness' - marrying, having a family, or general over-compensating, such as sleeping with tons of women, or at least boasting about doing such!

It's also been suggested (by Brerbear) that we're about ten years behind the Americans in EVERYTHING - really, I think we need to give ourselves a little more credit that that!!

What total and utter nonsense - I think we (Brits) are posessed of a greater strength of will, and are far more robust in asserting and sticking to our own values than our US counterparts.

We're not the lemmings you seem to be resigned into thinking we are Brerbear - show a little backbone mate!

Peace,

PG.

Greetings from across the pond!

I do agree that there is some American porn which is much more extreme than any I've seen in the UK. I personally prefer something a little aggressive, but I have seen similar, vigorous scenes in may UK releases, too. Having said that, a little flavor from a Yankee:

1. Yes, Max Hardcore is pretty...uhh.."hardcore." Max markets his US product a little differently than on the Continent (I believe he omits the pissing scenes in the US). Max is not my flavor, nor is a lot of American porn consumers', but he's got a market, which is evidenced by his rather large house in L.A. I've met him and he's pretty well-reasoned when you talk with him, he admits his stuff is not for everyone. He's also spent a lot of cash defending his right to free expression, and a lot of Americans at least respect him for that.

2. On the other end of the spectrum, there's the Steve Hirschs (Vivid) and Michael Ninns (NinnWorx), etc, who produce what most of us all (Brits included) would consider vanilla porn. Soft lights...weak sex scenes, not very explicit. It caters to a completely different market, and it gets sold to the hotel chains and cable TV systems which don't allow the more explicit content (think of a Ben Dover title without showing any anal sex).

3. In between those two extremes, you'll find a *lot* of variety. Some of it is rather rough, and studios have reacted occasionally. In the early 2000s, Anabolic Video dropped a title called "Rough Sex" because it was coming under pressure from within the industry. And yeah, it was rough. The guy who shot it, Khan Tusion, was careful to forewarn the girls about what the shoots would be like, and didn't bring in just anyone. I've seen this issue of choking brought up a few times. There was a brief time when choking scenes were out there. That has disappeared almost completely, brought about mainly by the industry itself. Some of the porn reviewers are having a cow over a recently-released movie called "Donkey Punch." Some of the titles sound extreme, but are misleading. You'd be horrified to contemplate the action in a title called "Cum-Filled Asshole Overload." In reality it's a MMF video with anal cumshots.

My educated guess is that the average American male needing some masturbatory relief will fall in the middle of those extremes, and occasionally make a small move in either direction.

4. There are a lot of things you'll NOT see in American porn that are still common/legal elsewhere. Rape, incest, simulated underage (or actual, of course), bestiality, or any implications of these are pretty much out of bounds. In the U.S., the legality of porn hangs on a single federal court case years ago in California, where producing porn was no longer equated with prostitution. U.S. law only explicity prohibits underage porn (performers under 18), the remainder of taboo porn rests on a vague legal concept of obscenity, which federal courts have said can vary from community to community. Porn is careful not to cross many of those lines and regulates itself, lest a legitimate challenge to the aforementioned legal judgement happen.

5. You'll find some of your British favorites in U.S. porn productions doing more extreme scenes than they have done in the UK. Donna Ibbotson performed as "Donna Marie" and did a great scene in a movie called "Straight to the A," and I'm sure you can guess the theme. I've seen Bev Cocks do some really aggressive GG scenes with Jewel DeNyle. Flick Shagwell did some really nasty scenes, and is now a makeup artist in Porn Valley. And when you next see your girl Isabel Ice, remind her she promised me on xxxporntalk.com not to play with poop any more. !wink!

6. As for some of the other odd accusations (directors are gay/we're all pedophiles, etc, etc)...as Mr T says, "That's just jibber jabber!"


FWIW, this has been interesting reading, and has reached the most widely read American porn blog lukeisback.com.

Welcome Willie

A very intelligent post from across the pond.

I think your comment "My educated guess is that the average American male needing some masturbatory relief will fall in the middle of those extremes, and occasionally make a small move in either direction, is true all over the world.


And... Luke has used a few edits of posts from this thread... He's a good guy

A riveting read! I didn't say all American producers of rough sex are gay, I said they are probably latent homosexuals, with a hint of latent psychopath and a tad of rapist.

All of these traits buried deep in their subconscious of course, until they lift a camera! LOL

I wouldn't use the word nastier!!! I would simply use the word.. BETTER!!

... much better, the Brits are getting there and I am glad, because we need to improve our standards to have a chance of competing.. with the world, not just the States..

if you want nasty, check ; 666, sexbot and some of the bizarre Japanese stuff freely available... that stuff is extremely... extreme!!! the US stuff is simply better because of money; and they can afford the production costs that allow talent to cross the pond and make their living their...

Well Jim Slip, thanks for your reply. I'd disagree with that characterization. I'd pin it more on greed with a tinge of mysogyny. There are more and more producers in the market, competing for the same dollar. Pushing the edge without going over the line = more caysh.

Well, once exception. John Stagliano openly admits his desire to push his own personal envelops led him to that night with the tranny who gave him HIV.

Saw you website, too. Looks nice, except Ron Jeremy is sooo yesterday.

Hi Willie D
I would just like to point out that i have worked in the states and after working for Extreme (the name says it all really) i quit hard B/G due to the incestuous underage nature of the film (i had to run off set to vomit twice during filming and actually cut it short because i was so uncomfortable doing the scene found in extreme teen 8)
so you see you do actually get this kind of stuff shot stateside and no offence but incest, rape, peodophilia, and beastiality are iilegal worldwide but are still practised worldwide by subcultures that just don't give a shit! what America seems to do in quite alot of its extreme stuff is basically glamourise all of the above. and yes beastiality is even featured in some of jim powers stuff (I Know they were men in those gorilla suits: gorillas in the ass) my point is this, i was 20 when extreme teen 8 was filmed so well over the legal age but it glamourised incest and peodophilia as i was acting the part of an extremely young girl. there are alot of really stupid young americans who get hold of this stuff and think its real and normal.
The only porn i could get my hands on when younger (as we all do) was what everbody seems to call "vanilla" but then none of the participants were in any way, shape or form degraded, it looked like they were really into it and it always ended with all very flushed and satisfied (thank god my mother was a secret porn fan) i know for a fact that watching these played a big part in shaping my preferences for sex so god only knows what extreme porn is doing to the younger generation!
good topic this one
luv n hugs to all
Karina

This isn't really a reply to Karina's post although she talks about the so called 'vanilla' and 'extreme' genres. Elsewhere i've talked about some consumers' need for 'new sensations', and without being judgemental I thought i'd reproduce a quote from Emile Durkheim .. not apropos of porn, but relevant nonetheless.

'From top to bottom of the ladder greed is aroused without knowing where to find ultimate foothold. Nothing can calm it since its goal is beyond all it can attain. Reality seems valueless by comparison with the dreams of fevered imaginations; reality is therefore abandoned, but so too is possibility abandoned when it in turn becomes reality. A thirst for novelties, unfamiliar pleasures, nameless sensations, all of which lose their savor once known'.

Producers don't have a social responsibility and porn is a subculture, but is there a personal and social cost in terms of 'pushing the envelope' and upping the ante ?