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'I am still waiting for an apology because your snide inferences were totally out of order'

Sorry for any snide inferences.

Accepted.

You are right, the evidence we are talking about is not true science, but scientific method is still applicable and should be used as far as possible in any good studies.

What I was trying to say was that it is important to be as objective as possible and to draw the line based on a rational assessment of the available evidence (such as it is), rather than relying on a subjective gut reaction - hang em high etc, which is very dangerous. It is all too easy to use this sort of argument against all porn - or anything else we don?t like. It?s the sort of argument that led to the video nasties scare.

Hi there, why not try a clockwork orange .

or straw dogs.

I have read through a lot of the arguments on this subject, and still feel that there is a lot of double standards.

The original request was for a fantasy film.....fantasy being the operative word.

Many couples have role play as part of there sexual habbits and has mentioned on this discussion, perons on this site have had partners who liked to participate in a consenting rough role play.

By someone wanting to watch a fantasy act does not mean that person would go out and recreate that act on some poor individual.

The majority of "normal" porn these days seems to abuse women in some form other, but that is deemed OK.

You can take this argument to the ultimate conclusion and say that any documentaries about Guns and or weapons can not be shown, as this may encourage the watcher to shoot someone.

The truth is the adult industry is aimed at adults, who know the difference between reality and fantasy......and if they don't then it is the individuals own delusions who are to blame, not the industry.

As they say "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

You're still missing the point which was that getting off on someone being raped is just plain sick. Sexual fantasy is great, but rape is more about humiliation, power, anger, hate than sex - things that are the very opposite of the desire to make love and have fun with a fellow human being. It's not about whether or not it's "real" or "fantasy", though I should bloody well hope it isn't. What matters in this context, and what makes many of us angry, is that some sad fucks think rape is something that should be seen legitimately as sexually stimulating entertainment.

No-one is saying it's going to lead to him raping someone (necessarily) - no-one's said people don't have responsibility for themselves - and no-one is trying to excuse the rest of the porn industry, which as several people have said including myself contains good and bad - these are things you are reading into it. I agree that most of us are adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, though that doesn't apply to everyone and there will always be some twat who can't make that simple distinction.

Personally I would like to have an erotic industry that values sexual freedom of expression. But I think that's less likely to be allowed to continue by the moral bigots when our freedoms are also being undermined by those who try to push the boundaries beyond any reasonable limits of acceptability. I think the people who do this are the flip side of the bigots - because they actually at the end of the day believe the same things - that all sex is "bad" or "sinful" or "nasty" and that therefore we are no more than animals and we can either control that or wallow in the mire.

It's amazing that some people trying to justify this use the arguement that all porn is ultimately abusive. Think about what you are saying for a second. If that's the case then what is to stop some bigot or misguided feminist saying "ha! told you so" and shutting us all down? Why should we accept that arguement for one second? Like sex in general, porn can be a celebration of life and humanity or a rejection of it. Sex can be used as a weapon to hurt or control people - as in rape or paedophilia - but the majority of sex is more about having fun, caring for someone, wanting contact, expressing feelings and so on. Porn can be liberatory as well as exploitative - and like most things often there's elements of both but its better that we can tell the difference than just say anything goes.

However this is the last I'm going to post in this thread. I think if anyone wants to discuss more "philosophical" issues we should continue this discussion elsewhere and let this thread die. I'm sick of seeing "Rape Videos" at the top of the forum subjects (I'm as much to blame I know).

'getting off on someone being raped is just plain sick'
Granted, but getting off on someone pretending to be raped? I think that is a greyer area.
If you are worried about abuse, are you going to ban S&M? I'd rather watch a womean pretending to be raped, than one with pins shoved in her breasts,
What about spanking or bondage in all but the most consensual plotlines?
And the point you most angrily debate is that pure porn is totally free of images of domination and power? Yeah, thats why most porn shoots end with cum on a womans face.
You make some valid points, but the vitriol you display to those whose views and fantasies are different to yours are frighteningly similar to those the readers of the Daily Mail would throw your way.