SpankyMonkey wrote:
> oh god this gets better and better. this is the best posting
> ever on the bgafd! i had to sit down with tea and crumpets and
> read it all over again.
>
> i wonder if all of this is just a lot of promotion though for
> the film. dont forget its all being reported in ETO so it does
> make me a bit suspect that its all kicked off when it can only
> benefit promotion and sales of the film.
>
> is this a set up?
>
> still hopefully the third performer will come on board and tell
> her side of events. if we are really lucky one of the farmers
> might be reading this posting, if they're not out tending to
> perverts worrying their cows and whatnot.
This is not a set-up.
I'm not massively keen on naming and shaming people I've worked with, but in light of the events I feel I should.
I agreed to a g/g/g shoot with Paul Smith in London, with a dominatrix named Qing, and Lala.
Paul talked my regular fee down to ?230 for two hours or ?300 for three hours if the shoot took longer, this was for hard g/g with anal and a2m, and also solo watersports. He was concerned about saving money on the rest of his film as he has already gone over budget with his first scene.
Qing and Lala were both completely professional and lovely, and considering that Lala was a last minute booking covering for a girl who had cancelled, she did a brilliant job.
The shoot was due to start at 2pm, and Paul asked me to be there at 1.30. I however got stuck in traffic and only arrived at 2. I took 30 minutes to get ready and made up and into the very elaborate outfit that we had agreed I would wear.
The shoot started, and the first scene involved me being locked in a cage, stood in ballet boots, with a ball gag in. What I hadn't anticipated was Paul then taking the other two girls into the main part of the dungeon and closing the door, leaving me on my own for the best part of half an hour, locked up, with the keys out of reach. I eventually had to call for my partner to come out of the dressing room and help me.
When Paul did eventually come to get me, I explained to him that you can't leave girls locked up on their own, but he basically brushed it off. He then presented me with a 2" diameter butt plug and asked that I insert it. I said that it was too big, and his reply was "It's a HARDCORE shoot", implying that anal insertion wasn't good enough for him unless the toy was huge. He was visibly displeased so I agreed to try the toy (which upon reflexion I shouldn't have done) and hurt myself, so we had to settle on a smaller butt plug, which he seemed extremely disappointed about.
In the dungeon proper, I realised that the room had three mirrored walls and a mirrored ceiling. Not the best for shooting in, as there was only one wall he could shoot against without himself appearing on camera. At one point during the shoot Lala was locked into some stocks, and Paul wanted Qing to use a dildo on her, however without asking Lala he proceeded to insert it himself, several times.
During the whole shoot, Paul kept cutting and stopping us, making it extremely hard to get into any kind of vibe or momentum. Qing explained to him several times that he needed to just shoot and edit it later (she was concerned as she was getting the footage as part of her payment), but he kept interrupting us to reposition himself, almost as if he was trying to edit in-camera to save himself time. It made it very difficult to perform credibly or enjoy ourselves.
When the shoot was over, it turned out that Paul hadn't brought enough cash to cover everyone's fee, so he had to go out to find a cashpoint in his car, and he decided to drop off Lala at the same time. It took him an hour in total to return, so by this point the shoot had overrun by two hours on the projected time of three hours. Considering I had a five-hour journey to get back home and it was now 7pm, I was not happy.
He then asked me how much he owed me. I said ?300, to which he appeared shocked and started to argue. At this point my partner intervened (he was eager to avoid an argument and get me out of there as I was very upset at this point) and said we'd take ?280 as I hadn't done a2m or watersports.
Paul then said something to the effect of "Oh right - I knew it was ?280, but I was hoping you'd say less so I could underpay you". If it was a joke, it wasn't even remotely funny.
Needless to say, we got out of there as fast as we could.
I wasn't going to write this because I thought it might just have been a one-off, as it's Paul's first film he may have been making a few mistakes and maybe not fully understand some things about shooting porn.
It's clear to me, however, that Paul made a mess of both shoots not through ignorance but through negligence and thrift. I simply can't believe that anyone would try to shoot a load of adult scenes in an unsecured public location without bothering to tell the participants. I can't believe that he hasn't covered everyone's fines himself, as well as their modeling fees in full. It's his own fault that he didn't get the footage, so it's his problem, not anyone else's. It seems to me that he's been cutting corners and blundering his way through shooting this film at the expense of a lot of performers' time and money, and that's completely unacceptable.
The publisher of ETO is a childhood friend of mine, and I'm considering getting in touch with him and making him aware of what has been said. I don't think Paul deserves publicity as a producer, and the only way this production should ever be chronicled in a magazine is as a catalogue of errors, a 'how NOT to shoot porn'.
Paul, if you read this, I'm sorry I made this public but I have given an honest and truthful account of events from my perspective, and if there is one thing to learn from this is that without performers you have no film, so you simply cannot afford to keep treating people like this. You can't underpay or try to stiff people just because you're running out of money. You owe all of those performers their fees in full as well as the cost of their fines because by all accounts it's your fault that the cops showed up and the shoot did not go ahead as planned, not theirs. Before proceeding with any more shoots, you really have to stop and think hard about how you're going to save your reputation as a reliable and trustworthy filmmaker. If you do not and you keep working like this, you may discover very quickly that people are completely unwilling to risk working with you.
That is all.
What a weekend... please read and heed.
-
Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
-
davepaterson
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
this is one of the funniest threads ever!........it firday night and im pissed but god im nearly crying with laughter
-
Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
Alice In Blunderland wrote:
> WTF! what if you had become ill? what if it was somebody who
> did not have a partner/chaperone to call and they became ill or
> if there was a fire? with this and the thing about the bigger
> butt plug it makes him sound like some kind of sadist.
It's not just the health and safety issue. It's like, what's the best way to guarantee that a girl is going to be unhappy and pissed off for the entire shoot? Put her in a ball gag and the most uncomfortable shoes known to man, lock her in a cage and leave the room for half an hour.
He did all this stuff and then made me feel bad for objecting, like I was underperforming because I wasn't just taking everything in my stride.
Red mentioned that she waited for everyone for four hours and didn't even get an apology. Winkle pointed out that even after an aborted shoot and an altercation with the police, Paul still had the gall to ask everyone to meet him later that evening to he could get his shoot done. With the butt plug thing, it wasn't so much sadism as making me feel like I was a crap actress because I couldn't fit a huge toy inside me.
I don't think he's a sadist, I think he's selfish and thoughtless, and I don't think he knows how to treat the people he works with.
> WTF! what if you had become ill? what if it was somebody who
> did not have a partner/chaperone to call and they became ill or
> if there was a fire? with this and the thing about the bigger
> butt plug it makes him sound like some kind of sadist.
It's not just the health and safety issue. It's like, what's the best way to guarantee that a girl is going to be unhappy and pissed off for the entire shoot? Put her in a ball gag and the most uncomfortable shoes known to man, lock her in a cage and leave the room for half an hour.
He did all this stuff and then made me feel bad for objecting, like I was underperforming because I wasn't just taking everything in my stride.
Red mentioned that she waited for everyone for four hours and didn't even get an apology. Winkle pointed out that even after an aborted shoot and an altercation with the police, Paul still had the gall to ask everyone to meet him later that evening to he could get his shoot done. With the butt plug thing, it wasn't so much sadism as making me feel like I was a crap actress because I couldn't fit a huge toy inside me.
I don't think he's a sadist, I think he's selfish and thoughtless, and I don't think he knows how to treat the people he works with.
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
Poor Paul
I have met Paul a few times and he has always acted in a professional manner. He is a journalist, he is very technical and his knowlege of gaggets and IT is huge. Now I can remmeber him going on record stating this was an attempt at making porn, his first attempt of such. I don't think he wants to be a porn producer as he knows the market it flooded. He never made an attempt at Gonzo so he clearly is not just trying to get his rocks off. Lets face it he could for a few hundred quid and a certificate he could have done what many new producers have done. Paul has gone in at the deep end. Lets face it would you let a journalist from a car magazine enter a F1 race. Paul has faced in a few days what all true producers have faced over years because of wanting to make quality porn. Ok he got it wrong, ok he tries to save money, ok he lacks skills in dealing with people all skills I know some producers have shown. ETO will be pissin themselves like most of the producers because Paul has shown how difficult it can be to work in porn and also how when you do get it wrong the daggers just fly in. My respects to the models who tried their best to help him out as many will have know more about making a movie than Paul. I know a few girls on the shoots and they are very genuine, but just to show the otherside one of the girls Paul shot made me wait a day then turn up in pitch black to shoot a scene where her boyfriend texted her every five minutes coz he never knew what she did. I don't know if I had a professional set-up by todays standards I don't know if I had experiance but I do know I had loads of issues while shooting porn. Glad to see the back of production. Poor Paul
"Stop laughing and tell me it's big"
Live or on demand streaming Hi-def quality programing <http://www.goxxxtv.com> all British Girls at a £1 per pull.
Live or on demand streaming Hi-def quality programing <http://www.goxxxtv.com> all British Girls at a £1 per pull.
-
Paul Smith
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
I've tried to keep a dignified silence on this thread, but as its scope seems to be constantly expanding (unlike Emily's bottom) I think I'd better speak up. I'll reply to her post --- in this fashion ---
I'm not massively keen on naming and shaming people I've worked with, but in light of the events I feel I should.
--- I'm not massively keen on having to defend myself against public attacks but in light of this post, I feel I should ---
I agreed to a g/g/g shoot with Paul Smith in London, with a dominatrix named Qing, and Lala.
--- I remember the day well ---
Paul talked my regular fee down to ?230 for two hours or ?300 for three hours if the shoot took longer, this was for hard g/g with anal and a2m, and also solo watersports. He was concerned about saving money on the rest of his film as he has already gone over budget with his first scene.
--- I picked up on one of many BGAFD posts by Emily looking for work at a reduced rate. As my budget is limited, I took advantage of her offer. I can't confirm what we agreed here though, as that's privileged information, not for public discussion ---
Qing and Lala were both completely professional and lovely, and considering that Lala was a last minute booking covering for a girl who had cancelled, she did a brilliant job.
--- I've worked with Qing and Lala since... Lala is/was a wonderful actress and I can't thank her enough for helping out at very short notice. I'd recommend her to anyone looking for a reliable, expressive performer ---
The shoot was due to start at 2pm, and Paul asked me to be there at 1.30. I however got stuck in traffic and only arrived at 2. I took 30 minutes to get ready and made up and into the very elaborate outfit that we had agreed I would wear.
--- The outfit Emily suggested she wear took a while to get on, but other performers (who'd arrived earlier) were still getting ready, so this wasn't a big issue ---
The shoot started, and the first scene involved me being locked in a cage, stood in ballet boots, with a ball gag in. What I hadn't anticipated was Paul then taking the other two girls into the main part of the dungeon and closing the door, leaving me on my own for the best part of half an hour, locked up, with the keys out of reach. I eventually had to call for my partner to come out of the dressing room and help me.
--- Emily asked me not to keep enquiring after her well-being during the shoot. She said she'd tell me if there was a problem. I ensured the ball-gag could be removed by herself (her hands weren't bound) and while it's true I accidentally left her in a cage, her partner was all of 10ft away, beyond an open door. It was a mistake to leave her locked up but I'd been distracted. I apologised at the time for my error and do so again - I'm sorry I left you so long in your painful boots Emily ---
When Paul did eventually come to get me, I explained to him that you can't leave girls locked up on their own, but he basically brushed it off. He then presented me with a 2" diameter butt plug and asked that I insert it. I said that it was too big, and his reply was "It's a HARDCORE shoot", implying that anal insertion wasn't good enough for him unless the toy was huge. He was visibly displeased so I agreed to try the toy (which upon reflexion I shouldn't have done) and hurt myself, so we had to settle on a smaller butt plug, which he seemed extremely disappointed about.
--- I don't feel I brushed Emily's comments off at the time but as she does, I'll apologise again - It was a mistake Emily, and I'm sorry --- Ah, the butt-plug. It's not 2" in diameter, it's just over 1.5", and while Emily described it as a 'Gay Man's Plug', I didn't think it was 'huge' - However, when she said it was too large, I swapped to a smaller plug and didn't make a big fuss about it. If I'd have been extremely disappointed, I would have been crying. I wasn't ---
In the dungeon proper, I realised that the room had three mirrored walls and a mirrored ceiling. Not the best for shooting in, as there was only one wall he could shoot against without himself appearing on camera. At one point during the shoot Lala was locked into some stocks, and Paul wanted Qing to use a dildo on her, however without asking Lala he proceeded to insert it himself, several times.
--- I'd not seen the room before shooting there (even though I'd asked for photos) and agree, so much mirror makes for some careful framing. I explained to Qing (with Lala listening too) that I wanted to get a 'dildo's eye view' of the penetration and held the toy to the front of the camera to insert it. While this was not technically asking Lala for her permission, she made no objection. If I were in the same situation again, I would make my request clearer and seek verbal approval. Lesson learned and an apology to Lala, if she'd like one ---
During the whole shoot, Paul kept cutting and stopping us, making it extremely hard to get into any kind of vibe or momentum. Qing explained to him several times that he needed to just shoot and edit it later (she was concerned as she was getting the footage as part of her payment), but he kept interrupting us to reposition himself, almost as if he was trying to edit in-camera to save himself time. It made it very difficult to perform credibly or enjoy ourselves.
--- Qing wasn't the director, I was. While asking for certain things to be repeated when I was at a better angle, or closer, might disrupt the flow and lead to less enjoyment for the performers, I was there to make a film, not for my performers to enjoy themselves. I was paying them to perform for the camera, not themselves or each other. Another issue, as Emily has already pointed out, was the mirrored wall. Having been editing the footage this morning, I'd not call my occasional requests for changes to the performance (this is what a director does, right?) as 'kept interrupting'.
When the shoot was over, it turned out that Paul hadn't brought enough cash to cover everyone's fee, so he had to go out to find a cashpoint in his car, and he decided to drop off Lala at the same time. It took him an hour in total to return, so by this point the shoot had overrun by two hours on the projected time of three hours. Considering I had a five-hour journey to get back home and it was now 7pm, I was not happy.
--- The plan had been to pick up additional cash before coming into London, but the 'excitement' of having a performer pull out at 7.30am had pushed such thoughts from my mind. So I went to find an ATM machine after seeing Lala safely to the station. If you know Croydon, you might know they're few and far between and it did take me 25 minutes of driving around to find one that was working and a further 10 minutes to get back to the dungeon. I apologised for keeping everyone waiting. The option of a fast getaway with a cheque had been given, but as Emily wanted cash, I found her cash as quickly as I could. I'd also say a late arrival had delayed the shoot a little but I kept the videoing to under the agreed 3 hours to ensure Lala could get to an evening booking. According to the ATM receipt I was given for the money, it would have been closer to 6pm than 7pm when I paid Emily ---
He then asked me how much he owed me. I said ?300, to which he appeared shocked and started to argue. At this point my partner intervened (he was eager to avoid an argument and get me out of there as I was very upset at this point) and said we'd take ?280 as I hadn't done a2m or watersports.
--- I wasn't shocked when Emily asked for more than we'd agreed, and I wouldn't call reminding her of our agreement an argument. Luckily her partner remembered the agreement because Emily said she never could recall what rates she'd agreed to. She didn't look very upset at the time but if she was, I can only say sorry again ---
Paul then said something to the effect of "Oh right - I knew it was ?280, but I was hoping you'd say less so I could underpay you". If it was a joke, it wasn't even remotely funny.
--- That's not quite what I said, and it was intended as a joke. I'm sorry Emily didn't appreciate it ---
Needless to say, we got out of there as fast as we could.
--- And I contacted you to ensure you'd got home in one piece, and didn't hear a negative word about the day until you posted here. It's nice if people say they have a problem at the time. Then I know they have a problem and deal with it. I'm not a monster ---
I wasn't going to write this because I thought it might just have been a one-off, as it's Paul's first film he may have been making a few mistakes and maybe not fully understand some things about shooting porn.
--- It's certainly been educational. As it's my first (and only, I dare say) film, clearly I had a lot to learn about the process. That's rather been the point ---
It's clear to me, however, that Paul made a mess of both shoots not through ignorance but through negligence and thrift. I simply can't believe that anyone would try to shoot a load of adult scenes in an unsecured public location without bothering to tell the participants. I can't believe that he hasn't covered everyone's fines himself, as well as their modelling fees in full. It's his own fault that he didn't get the footage, so it's his problem, not anyone else's. It seems to me that he's been cutting corners and blundering his way through shooting this film at the expense of a lot of performers' time and money, and that's completely unacceptable.
--- I reject the allegation of neglect. The well-being of my performers has always been forefront in my mind. Mistakes have been made but not because of 'thrift', but through being overstretched in the roles I've taken upon myself. I can't comment on some of your points as I'm still taking advice on the situation but I hope to resolve the issues to everyone's satisfaction ---
The publisher of ETO is a childhood friend of mine, and I'm considering getting in touch with him and making him aware of what has been said. I don't think Paul deserves publicity as a producer, and the only way this production should ever be chronicled in a magazine is as a catalogue of errors, a 'how NOT to shoot porn'.
--- I've been in regular contact with ETO about this and believe the publisher is aware of the details, but I'm sure he'd appreciate hearing from you Emily. When I write-up my experiences, I will be acknowledging my errors of judgement as well as reflecting on the things that did go right. Both of them ---
Paul, if you read this, I'm sorry I made this public but I have given an honest and truthful account of events from my perspective, and if there is one thing to learn from this is that without performers you have no film, so you simply cannot afford to keep treating people like this. You can't underpay or try to stiff people just because you're running out of money. You owe all of those performers their fees in full as well as the cost of their fines because by all accounts it's your fault that the cops showed up and the shoot did not go ahead as planned, not theirs. Before proceeding with any more shoots, you really have to stop and think hard about how you're going to save your reputation as a reliable and trustworthy filmmaker. If you do not and you keep working like this, you may discover very quickly that people are completely unwilling to risk working with you.
--- I'm very lucky to have worked with some excellent, professional, reliable performers (Red's name springs immediately to mind) who've not attacked people in front of the police, arrived late, made unrealistic/constantly changing demands or looked wildly different from the photos I'd seen of them on their site. Without them, I'd have given up on the shoot long ago. As it is, I've completed filming and are getting stuck into editing. Editing is great as it doesn't rely on anyone else... I'm sorry your experience of working with me wasn't a wholly pleasant one and I've not yet followed your advice on how to reward performers who leave me without material and would still like to be paid.
That is all.
---Amen----
I'm not massively keen on naming and shaming people I've worked with, but in light of the events I feel I should.
--- I'm not massively keen on having to defend myself against public attacks but in light of this post, I feel I should ---
I agreed to a g/g/g shoot with Paul Smith in London, with a dominatrix named Qing, and Lala.
--- I remember the day well ---
Paul talked my regular fee down to ?230 for two hours or ?300 for three hours if the shoot took longer, this was for hard g/g with anal and a2m, and also solo watersports. He was concerned about saving money on the rest of his film as he has already gone over budget with his first scene.
--- I picked up on one of many BGAFD posts by Emily looking for work at a reduced rate. As my budget is limited, I took advantage of her offer. I can't confirm what we agreed here though, as that's privileged information, not for public discussion ---
Qing and Lala were both completely professional and lovely, and considering that Lala was a last minute booking covering for a girl who had cancelled, she did a brilliant job.
--- I've worked with Qing and Lala since... Lala is/was a wonderful actress and I can't thank her enough for helping out at very short notice. I'd recommend her to anyone looking for a reliable, expressive performer ---
The shoot was due to start at 2pm, and Paul asked me to be there at 1.30. I however got stuck in traffic and only arrived at 2. I took 30 minutes to get ready and made up and into the very elaborate outfit that we had agreed I would wear.
--- The outfit Emily suggested she wear took a while to get on, but other performers (who'd arrived earlier) were still getting ready, so this wasn't a big issue ---
The shoot started, and the first scene involved me being locked in a cage, stood in ballet boots, with a ball gag in. What I hadn't anticipated was Paul then taking the other two girls into the main part of the dungeon and closing the door, leaving me on my own for the best part of half an hour, locked up, with the keys out of reach. I eventually had to call for my partner to come out of the dressing room and help me.
--- Emily asked me not to keep enquiring after her well-being during the shoot. She said she'd tell me if there was a problem. I ensured the ball-gag could be removed by herself (her hands weren't bound) and while it's true I accidentally left her in a cage, her partner was all of 10ft away, beyond an open door. It was a mistake to leave her locked up but I'd been distracted. I apologised at the time for my error and do so again - I'm sorry I left you so long in your painful boots Emily ---
When Paul did eventually come to get me, I explained to him that you can't leave girls locked up on their own, but he basically brushed it off. He then presented me with a 2" diameter butt plug and asked that I insert it. I said that it was too big, and his reply was "It's a HARDCORE shoot", implying that anal insertion wasn't good enough for him unless the toy was huge. He was visibly displeased so I agreed to try the toy (which upon reflexion I shouldn't have done) and hurt myself, so we had to settle on a smaller butt plug, which he seemed extremely disappointed about.
--- I don't feel I brushed Emily's comments off at the time but as she does, I'll apologise again - It was a mistake Emily, and I'm sorry --- Ah, the butt-plug. It's not 2" in diameter, it's just over 1.5", and while Emily described it as a 'Gay Man's Plug', I didn't think it was 'huge' - However, when she said it was too large, I swapped to a smaller plug and didn't make a big fuss about it. If I'd have been extremely disappointed, I would have been crying. I wasn't ---
In the dungeon proper, I realised that the room had three mirrored walls and a mirrored ceiling. Not the best for shooting in, as there was only one wall he could shoot against without himself appearing on camera. At one point during the shoot Lala was locked into some stocks, and Paul wanted Qing to use a dildo on her, however without asking Lala he proceeded to insert it himself, several times.
--- I'd not seen the room before shooting there (even though I'd asked for photos) and agree, so much mirror makes for some careful framing. I explained to Qing (with Lala listening too) that I wanted to get a 'dildo's eye view' of the penetration and held the toy to the front of the camera to insert it. While this was not technically asking Lala for her permission, she made no objection. If I were in the same situation again, I would make my request clearer and seek verbal approval. Lesson learned and an apology to Lala, if she'd like one ---
During the whole shoot, Paul kept cutting and stopping us, making it extremely hard to get into any kind of vibe or momentum. Qing explained to him several times that he needed to just shoot and edit it later (she was concerned as she was getting the footage as part of her payment), but he kept interrupting us to reposition himself, almost as if he was trying to edit in-camera to save himself time. It made it very difficult to perform credibly or enjoy ourselves.
--- Qing wasn't the director, I was. While asking for certain things to be repeated when I was at a better angle, or closer, might disrupt the flow and lead to less enjoyment for the performers, I was there to make a film, not for my performers to enjoy themselves. I was paying them to perform for the camera, not themselves or each other. Another issue, as Emily has already pointed out, was the mirrored wall. Having been editing the footage this morning, I'd not call my occasional requests for changes to the performance (this is what a director does, right?) as 'kept interrupting'.
When the shoot was over, it turned out that Paul hadn't brought enough cash to cover everyone's fee, so he had to go out to find a cashpoint in his car, and he decided to drop off Lala at the same time. It took him an hour in total to return, so by this point the shoot had overrun by two hours on the projected time of three hours. Considering I had a five-hour journey to get back home and it was now 7pm, I was not happy.
--- The plan had been to pick up additional cash before coming into London, but the 'excitement' of having a performer pull out at 7.30am had pushed such thoughts from my mind. So I went to find an ATM machine after seeing Lala safely to the station. If you know Croydon, you might know they're few and far between and it did take me 25 minutes of driving around to find one that was working and a further 10 minutes to get back to the dungeon. I apologised for keeping everyone waiting. The option of a fast getaway with a cheque had been given, but as Emily wanted cash, I found her cash as quickly as I could. I'd also say a late arrival had delayed the shoot a little but I kept the videoing to under the agreed 3 hours to ensure Lala could get to an evening booking. According to the ATM receipt I was given for the money, it would have been closer to 6pm than 7pm when I paid Emily ---
He then asked me how much he owed me. I said ?300, to which he appeared shocked and started to argue. At this point my partner intervened (he was eager to avoid an argument and get me out of there as I was very upset at this point) and said we'd take ?280 as I hadn't done a2m or watersports.
--- I wasn't shocked when Emily asked for more than we'd agreed, and I wouldn't call reminding her of our agreement an argument. Luckily her partner remembered the agreement because Emily said she never could recall what rates she'd agreed to. She didn't look very upset at the time but if she was, I can only say sorry again ---
Paul then said something to the effect of "Oh right - I knew it was ?280, but I was hoping you'd say less so I could underpay you". If it was a joke, it wasn't even remotely funny.
--- That's not quite what I said, and it was intended as a joke. I'm sorry Emily didn't appreciate it ---
Needless to say, we got out of there as fast as we could.
--- And I contacted you to ensure you'd got home in one piece, and didn't hear a negative word about the day until you posted here. It's nice if people say they have a problem at the time. Then I know they have a problem and deal with it. I'm not a monster ---
I wasn't going to write this because I thought it might just have been a one-off, as it's Paul's first film he may have been making a few mistakes and maybe not fully understand some things about shooting porn.
--- It's certainly been educational. As it's my first (and only, I dare say) film, clearly I had a lot to learn about the process. That's rather been the point ---
It's clear to me, however, that Paul made a mess of both shoots not through ignorance but through negligence and thrift. I simply can't believe that anyone would try to shoot a load of adult scenes in an unsecured public location without bothering to tell the participants. I can't believe that he hasn't covered everyone's fines himself, as well as their modelling fees in full. It's his own fault that he didn't get the footage, so it's his problem, not anyone else's. It seems to me that he's been cutting corners and blundering his way through shooting this film at the expense of a lot of performers' time and money, and that's completely unacceptable.
--- I reject the allegation of neglect. The well-being of my performers has always been forefront in my mind. Mistakes have been made but not because of 'thrift', but through being overstretched in the roles I've taken upon myself. I can't comment on some of your points as I'm still taking advice on the situation but I hope to resolve the issues to everyone's satisfaction ---
The publisher of ETO is a childhood friend of mine, and I'm considering getting in touch with him and making him aware of what has been said. I don't think Paul deserves publicity as a producer, and the only way this production should ever be chronicled in a magazine is as a catalogue of errors, a 'how NOT to shoot porn'.
--- I've been in regular contact with ETO about this and believe the publisher is aware of the details, but I'm sure he'd appreciate hearing from you Emily. When I write-up my experiences, I will be acknowledging my errors of judgement as well as reflecting on the things that did go right. Both of them ---
Paul, if you read this, I'm sorry I made this public but I have given an honest and truthful account of events from my perspective, and if there is one thing to learn from this is that without performers you have no film, so you simply cannot afford to keep treating people like this. You can't underpay or try to stiff people just because you're running out of money. You owe all of those performers their fees in full as well as the cost of their fines because by all accounts it's your fault that the cops showed up and the shoot did not go ahead as planned, not theirs. Before proceeding with any more shoots, you really have to stop and think hard about how you're going to save your reputation as a reliable and trustworthy filmmaker. If you do not and you keep working like this, you may discover very quickly that people are completely unwilling to risk working with you.
--- I'm very lucky to have worked with some excellent, professional, reliable performers (Red's name springs immediately to mind) who've not attacked people in front of the police, arrived late, made unrealistic/constantly changing demands or looked wildly different from the photos I'd seen of them on their site. Without them, I'd have given up on the shoot long ago. As it is, I've completed filming and are getting stuck into editing. Editing is great as it doesn't rely on anyone else... I'm sorry your experience of working with me wasn't a wholly pleasant one and I've not yet followed your advice on how to reward performers who leave me without material and would still like to be paid.
That is all.
---Amen----
http://www.erotictradeonly.com - Erotic Trade Only is the monthly business publication covering adult entertainment in the UK, and beyond. Since its launch in '03 it's become the mag of choice for adult retailers, e-tailers, manufacturers and directors.
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Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
Paul Smith wrote:
I've not yet followed your
> advice on how to reward performers who leave me without
> material and would still like to be paid.
I'm not interested in a slanging match, your point of view obviously differs from mine on certain points, it makes no odds to me, because we shall not be working together again. I haven't been in touch with you directly because I saw no point in telling you my thoughts on the shoot. I've made my point of view quite clear, so I'll just pick up on the comment that I've quoted above.
Paul, as an employer, when you hire people to do a job, it is your responsibility to ensure that they are able to do the job. As I pointed out, it was your fault that they were unable to do it. Had you secured the location properly and sought approval from the relevant authorities, the shoot would have gone ahead as planned.
The fact that the performers left you without material is not their fault. They would have left you with lots of material had they been able to. Granted some of them arrived late (that's sometimes an unavoidable factor in the business, as I'm sure you're now aware), but when they arrived they were happy to get to work.
The fact that Red could only get one scene done and no-one else got near the camera was a direct result of your failure to acquire written, legal permission to film adult material on the premises (had you had it, no-one would have been fined). I'm sure that none of the performers expected to be confronted by police officers on the day, let alone get fined for a public order offense.
What I find shocking is that you hadn't even mentioned to any of the performers that you weren't 100% sure of the location's security.
But the bottom line is, you hired people, they arrived ready to work, they would have done the work had you enabled them to, it's your fault that they left with less money than they arrived with instead of more, therefore as a professional you owe them at least the cost of the fines, if not some form of suitable compensation.
For the record, just in case anyone thinks I'm some crazy woman jumping on the slag-Paul-off bandwagon, I'm not. I've had something like 100 adult shoots since I started, and the virtual totality of them have gone off without a hitch. One or two people have been a bit disorganised, very occasionally I've encountered some people whose motives were a little suspect, but on the whole I have enjoyed the large majority of my shoots, and would happily work with all of those producers, photographers or videographers again.
It is clear that the project that Paul has undertaken here is an extremely ambitious one, and the fact that he has undertaken it single-handedly as his first ever project is impressive, but it would have been obvious to most people that some things would fall over in the process. Girls pull out at the last minute. People get stuck in traffic. Locations other than studios and private houses are very difficult to manage. Shoots are delicate and complicated processes.
Paul, it's a good thing that you recognise that you have taken on a bit more than you can handle, but it would be good if you could also recognise how that has affected other people. You cite Red as an excellent, reliable, professional performer, however if you check her post she is clearly less impressed with your efforts. Performers rely on their wages, and therefore they rely on producers to make shoots happen smoothly. They can't absorb the cost of your mistakes, and that is why they deserve compensation.
I've not yet followed your
> advice on how to reward performers who leave me without
> material and would still like to be paid.
I'm not interested in a slanging match, your point of view obviously differs from mine on certain points, it makes no odds to me, because we shall not be working together again. I haven't been in touch with you directly because I saw no point in telling you my thoughts on the shoot. I've made my point of view quite clear, so I'll just pick up on the comment that I've quoted above.
Paul, as an employer, when you hire people to do a job, it is your responsibility to ensure that they are able to do the job. As I pointed out, it was your fault that they were unable to do it. Had you secured the location properly and sought approval from the relevant authorities, the shoot would have gone ahead as planned.
The fact that the performers left you without material is not their fault. They would have left you with lots of material had they been able to. Granted some of them arrived late (that's sometimes an unavoidable factor in the business, as I'm sure you're now aware), but when they arrived they were happy to get to work.
The fact that Red could only get one scene done and no-one else got near the camera was a direct result of your failure to acquire written, legal permission to film adult material on the premises (had you had it, no-one would have been fined). I'm sure that none of the performers expected to be confronted by police officers on the day, let alone get fined for a public order offense.
What I find shocking is that you hadn't even mentioned to any of the performers that you weren't 100% sure of the location's security.
But the bottom line is, you hired people, they arrived ready to work, they would have done the work had you enabled them to, it's your fault that they left with less money than they arrived with instead of more, therefore as a professional you owe them at least the cost of the fines, if not some form of suitable compensation.
For the record, just in case anyone thinks I'm some crazy woman jumping on the slag-Paul-off bandwagon, I'm not. I've had something like 100 adult shoots since I started, and the virtual totality of them have gone off without a hitch. One or two people have been a bit disorganised, very occasionally I've encountered some people whose motives were a little suspect, but on the whole I have enjoyed the large majority of my shoots, and would happily work with all of those producers, photographers or videographers again.
It is clear that the project that Paul has undertaken here is an extremely ambitious one, and the fact that he has undertaken it single-handedly as his first ever project is impressive, but it would have been obvious to most people that some things would fall over in the process. Girls pull out at the last minute. People get stuck in traffic. Locations other than studios and private houses are very difficult to manage. Shoots are delicate and complicated processes.
Paul, it's a good thing that you recognise that you have taken on a bit more than you can handle, but it would be good if you could also recognise how that has affected other people. You cite Red as an excellent, reliable, professional performer, however if you check her post she is clearly less impressed with your efforts. Performers rely on their wages, and therefore they rely on producers to make shoots happen smoothly. They can't absorb the cost of your mistakes, and that is why they deserve compensation.
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
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Emily Cartwright
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Poor Paul
Phil mCc wrote:
> Now I can remmeber
> him going on record stating this was an attempt at making porn,
> his first attempt of such. I don't think he wants to be a porn
> producer as he knows the market it flooded. He never made an
> attempt at Gonzo so he clearly is not just trying to get his
> rocks off. Lets face it he could for a few hundred quid and a
> certificate he could have done what many new producers have
> done. Paul has gone in at the deep end. Lets face it would you
> let a journalist from a car magazine enter a F1 race. Paul has
> faced in a few days what all true producers have faced over
> years because of wanting to make quality porn. Ok he got it
> wrong, ok he tries to save money, ok he lacks skills in dealing
> with people all skills I know some producers have shown. ETO
> will be pissin themselves like most of the producers because
> Paul has shown how difficult it can be to work in porn and also
> how when you do get it wrong the daggers just fly in. My
> respects to the models who tried their best to help him out as
> many will have know more about making a movie than Paul. I know
> a few girls on the shoots and they are very genuine, but just
> to show the otherside one of the girls Paul shot made me wait a
> day then turn up in pitch black to shoot a scene where her
> boyfriend texted her every five minutes coz he never knew what
> she did. I don't know if I had a professional set-up by todays
> standards I don't know if I had experiance but I do know I had
> loads of issues while shooting porn. Glad to see the back of
> production. Poor Paul
I appreciate your comments, but the thing is that it's one thing to take on a massive project on your own, without anyone else being involved. if you fail, you only hurt yourself.
On the other hand, Paul has taken on a project that required a lot of other people to work for him. I do realise that he has also pulled off a few of his shoots (as far as I know) and well done to him on that score, but the bottom line is that if a shoot falls over for whatever reason it affects more than one person. There are a number of things that have gone wrong for Paul that he had no control over and he has handled those okay, but the fiasco described by the original poster highlights why even seasoned producers prefer studios or private houses to shoot in. That is a mistake that could have been easily avoided, it was Paul's responsibility to avoid it, he didn't, and the mistake cost a few people a day's work and quite a lot of money, people who hadn't agreed to take the risk in the first place because they were misled by omission: When you turn up for a shoot, you naturally assume that the producer has permission to use the location.
To answer your question, no I wouldn't let a journalist from a car magazine enter an F1 race, for obvious reasons. You wouldn't hand a novice director the controls of a multi-million dollar Hollywood project. Similarly, I don't think it was a good idea for Paul to undertake a project of this magnitude and complexity, simply because he's never done anything like it before and furthermore he doesn't plan to do it again (thats the kicker - Paul won't even put into practice any of the lessons he's learned from this). It seems a shame to me that a lot of other people's time and money has gone to waste and a lot of people have been put out and upset for the sake of someone diving in at the deep end before he's even gotten his feet wet.
> Now I can remmeber
> him going on record stating this was an attempt at making porn,
> his first attempt of such. I don't think he wants to be a porn
> producer as he knows the market it flooded. He never made an
> attempt at Gonzo so he clearly is not just trying to get his
> rocks off. Lets face it he could for a few hundred quid and a
> certificate he could have done what many new producers have
> done. Paul has gone in at the deep end. Lets face it would you
> let a journalist from a car magazine enter a F1 race. Paul has
> faced in a few days what all true producers have faced over
> years because of wanting to make quality porn. Ok he got it
> wrong, ok he tries to save money, ok he lacks skills in dealing
> with people all skills I know some producers have shown. ETO
> will be pissin themselves like most of the producers because
> Paul has shown how difficult it can be to work in porn and also
> how when you do get it wrong the daggers just fly in. My
> respects to the models who tried their best to help him out as
> many will have know more about making a movie than Paul. I know
> a few girls on the shoots and they are very genuine, but just
> to show the otherside one of the girls Paul shot made me wait a
> day then turn up in pitch black to shoot a scene where her
> boyfriend texted her every five minutes coz he never knew what
> she did. I don't know if I had a professional set-up by todays
> standards I don't know if I had experiance but I do know I had
> loads of issues while shooting porn. Glad to see the back of
> production. Poor Paul
I appreciate your comments, but the thing is that it's one thing to take on a massive project on your own, without anyone else being involved. if you fail, you only hurt yourself.
On the other hand, Paul has taken on a project that required a lot of other people to work for him. I do realise that he has also pulled off a few of his shoots (as far as I know) and well done to him on that score, but the bottom line is that if a shoot falls over for whatever reason it affects more than one person. There are a number of things that have gone wrong for Paul that he had no control over and he has handled those okay, but the fiasco described by the original poster highlights why even seasoned producers prefer studios or private houses to shoot in. That is a mistake that could have been easily avoided, it was Paul's responsibility to avoid it, he didn't, and the mistake cost a few people a day's work and quite a lot of money, people who hadn't agreed to take the risk in the first place because they were misled by omission: When you turn up for a shoot, you naturally assume that the producer has permission to use the location.
To answer your question, no I wouldn't let a journalist from a car magazine enter an F1 race, for obvious reasons. You wouldn't hand a novice director the controls of a multi-million dollar Hollywood project. Similarly, I don't think it was a good idea for Paul to undertake a project of this magnitude and complexity, simply because he's never done anything like it before and furthermore he doesn't plan to do it again (thats the kicker - Paul won't even put into practice any of the lessons he's learned from this). It seems a shame to me that a lot of other people's time and money has gone to waste and a lot of people have been put out and upset for the sake of someone diving in at the deep end before he's even gotten his feet wet.
Lancashire based professional adult model. Hard solo and g/g, up to heavy fetish and BDSM - can travel, can accommodate, reliable, hard-working, flexible and versatile, with competitive rates! What more could you wish for?
-
strictlybroadband
- Posts: 1925
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: What a weekend... please read and heed.
SpankyMonkey wrote:
> i dont buy pauls claim hes doing it with his savings either.
> why does he need savings when hes got ETOs massive interest.
> someone claimed strictly broadband had a stake in this too but
> i dont know if thats true.
I know you don't like me SM (mostly because I challenged some of your insane babbling on the O/T forum). This is Paul's production. Neither Strictly Broadband nor ETO are involved in making it, although I've said I'll sponsor and help promote the end result, if he gets that far, as this movie is getting some publicity via ETO.
Note that we ALWAYS offer to sell and promote British titles via Strictly Broadband and Strictly News, regardless who they come from. We showcase British talent in our weekly newsletter at no cost to the producers and models. We're the ONLY British web site that is open to any British producer to sell their titles and make an extra income stream, and almost all British studios sell their movies on our site.
I'm friendly both with Paul and with the model he's (hopefully temporarily) fallen out with - so if you don't mind, I'm gonna back out and leave them to resolve this stuff between them.
> i dont buy pauls claim hes doing it with his savings either.
> why does he need savings when hes got ETOs massive interest.
> someone claimed strictly broadband had a stake in this too but
> i dont know if thats true.
I know you don't like me SM (mostly because I challenged some of your insane babbling on the O/T forum). This is Paul's production. Neither Strictly Broadband nor ETO are involved in making it, although I've said I'll sponsor and help promote the end result, if he gets that far, as this movie is getting some publicity via ETO.
Note that we ALWAYS offer to sell and promote British titles via Strictly Broadband and Strictly News, regardless who they come from. We showcase British talent in our weekly newsletter at no cost to the producers and models. We're the ONLY British web site that is open to any British producer to sell their titles and make an extra income stream, and almost all British studios sell their movies on our site.
I'm friendly both with Paul and with the model he's (hopefully temporarily) fallen out with - so if you don't mind, I'm gonna back out and leave them to resolve this stuff between them.
[url=http://www.strictlybroadband.com/]Strictly Broadband[/url]: new movies published daily, 365 days a year!