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"In some of the 'working' class areas of London those who are pushed to do this will have to keep quiet about it though as their community will ostracise them for the terrible 'sell out' they have become by the fact they're now supporting themselves and are not reliant on handouts"

Max, what strategy do you suggest for these people ? How should they explain their absence for a large part of the day and their reappearance in the evening tired and ready for an early night ?

The purpose of it would be to reinforce ideology. That's all. As such it would be a Tory Party vanity project.

I pity the poor sod who has to co-ordinate this scheme. Note the workshy are on a different time scale to us working tax payers. Nothing in the world moves 'til after their hero, King of Lowlife, Jezza Kyle finishes at 1025am. A quick Pot Noodle for brekkie, 2 cans of Tennent's Super then off to Post Office to waste their "hard earned" benefits on scratchcards and sweets.

It doesn't really stack up to me. Quite a lot of money will need to be spent on safety equipment, workwear and tools to do whatever jobs are identified as suitable. For example, if people are preparing/cooking food for the elderly they will workwear and utensils.

People will also need to receive adequate training, for example manual handling, food hygiene, CSCS cards and general health and safety.

There is also the potential for litigation where an individual feels an accident or injury has been caused by unsafe practices, poor equipment or inadequate training, and there will be any number of legal practices encouraging participants to initiate legal proceedings. Because people have been coerced on to these programmes they will be less shy of doing so.

Logistically I don't think it can happen. The Gov't isn't clear about what it's objectives are. DWP economists are on record as saying similar initiatives have been a waste of money inasmuch as they haven't made a difference ie achieved their objectives.

A good idea attempted is better than a bad idea perfected. This seems like directing resources at perfecting a bad idea.

I haven't read the replies to this really. All I'm gonna do is write my experience on unemployment.

I was unemployed for 3 years. (2006-2009) I was put through the "new deal" twice.

You attend a 6 week course to improve you CV, computer skills, english and maths etc.

3 months pass.

Then you are put into a 6 week work placement where you work a full time job for your benefits as well as a "training bonus" of ?13 a week.

Now I worked at a charity shop, it was ok. While at the weekly Job search chat, I'm hearing from other people there that worked for Sainsburys and other places that could provide more jobs for the unemployed as well as working above the 36 hour limit at stupid o'clock.

You aren't paid a minimum wage or even a wage, you are paid in benefits, despite you working a full time job. These programs were used to show a decline in unemployment.

The trouble is I've heard this line from various people in various governments etc. where the unemployed will work for their benefits. The trouble is they do, and all it does is create a cheap labour force for companies without the guarantee of a JOB.

Cuntybollocks wrote:

> People claiming benefits (while fully fit and healthy) MUST
> carry out a certain amount of work. Perhaps in the community,
> 15-20 hours per week. Litter picking, helping the aged ect ect.
> This give them a sense of purpose as well as lots of time to
> look for a job.

What if those people are already using their time for a positive aspiration or goal and are struggling to set up a business or establish themselves other fields but now have to ditch all that to pick up litter?

I can see the Government's policies driving some people over the edge. If you're not used to working and you currently go and sign on the dole fortnightly, to now be told you must pick up litter, scrub walls, serve meals at old people's homes and so on, is a case of taking someone from neutral to overdrive overnight. As I said above someone not used to working needs to have this done slowly, also they need to be treated with respect and to feel valued. Treating them like a member of a chain gang doing community service or making them show up at the DSS and being belittled every day, will not help them. All this is quite brutal and I can see applications for Incapacity Benefit going up because people on that are not hassled as much as those on the dole are.

"what strategy do you suggest for these people ? How should they explain their absence for a large part of the day and their reappearance in the evening tired and ready for an early night ?"

That's a tricky one, they could always say they've been at the gym. A lot of their family wont rise till the afternoon anyway so will only miss them during the pm. I used to live on the edge of south-east London years ago and would drive from Blackheath to the middle of town each morning. Coming up through Deptford and Bermondsey at 8.00 or 9.00 in the morning it was like a ghost town. The only activity in the area was the commuter traffic heading up to the City or the West End.

Wow this thread has generated a range of comments.

One thing that stands out is different people's interpretation of the number who are unemployed.

For various reasons of course there will always be jobs available and people who are unemployed if only short term.

My main point is regardless of if there are 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, .... million too few jobs neither this government nor the last have has actually done anything to create real jobs thus reducing imports and our vulnerability to events around the world or even to ensure existing ones are secure.

Just take the example of a few years ago when the MOD sock contract was taken off Halls in Hinckley and given to a distributor of socks sourced from the far east.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ative.html

If the benefits paid out are included I wonder how much if anything is saved as well as if the foreign item has turned out to be as durable.

Latest nonsense ploy is to make them attend the JobCentre for 35 hours a week ? yes that's gonna work... (no pun intended)