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william wrote:

..... "as a tax-payer I am fed up constantly paying for people on Benefit who could work"

.... as we are funding a nation of lazy spongers who think that
the system owes them and that they can sit back and play on the
black economy while getting a regular income off of the state. .....

This is veering off topic but you are 100% right. So many do not realise in total how much two adults and 2 or more children get in benefits.

The problem, as I posted in response to Lizard and on previous threads, is that the UK is short of at least 2 million real jobs. Until they are created the lazy spongers can not be given the ultimatum of taking a job or starving. The emphasis should be on not paying out the benefits rather than how much tax / NI they and their employers contribute to the state.

As I pointed out many people who work are costing the State thousands of pounds more than they give in tax, but most don't seem aware of this or don't care. I mentioned The Sun newspaper's letters page and how most of those who write in seem to think they bank-roll those people on Benefits and so on. A family who has two kids at school, where all four members use the NHS, dentist, GP, gets Child Benefit for the two kids, and so on, might cost the State anything from ?25,000 - ?35,000 a year. They may live in subsidised housing too. If the parents pay ?8,000 in tax between them there is clearly a huge shortfall where other people have to make up the diffence. These people are actually costing the State more than many on Benefits do. But these people bizarelly seem to think they pay for people on Benefits, the Royal family, the Civil Service pensions, Asylum Seekers, and everything else. The reality is they don't even cover what they themselves cost.

People are willing to see other people "starve" in 2012. Nice.

number 6 wrote:

> People are willing to see other people "starve" in 2012. Nice.

I expected this to be taken in the context that genuine jobs should be created so there is work for all those capable of working but currently sponging off the state and ultimately all who pay taxes. This group will only starve if they choose not to work.

Of course those who are disabled, eligible for state pension etc. should receive an adequate amount to live on from the state.

[quote]I have corrected your mistakes. If you don't accept them, that is entirely your prerogative.------The bottom line is that you stated that it is costing us nothing for the next three years to tie in with Cross Rail. That is clearly nonsense. You would be better off spending time grasping the detail behind an argument rather than in coming up with ever more convoluted explanations as to why something that is beyond question, wrong, is in fact, correct. [/quote]

I just didn't think I needed to include the caveat of planning costs when it was obvious that any alternatives would also have planning costs. Now I have, it is you that doesn't seem to want to accept a very good and fair point because you have no good and fair retort. If you can think of any alternative to increasing the capacity of said routes that won't have any immediate costs then I emplore you to elaborate. And I don't think pointing out that alternatives have planning costs too is convoluted......not for me, anyway.

The main point of costs is that you seemed to think that right now the money would be better spent on other 'metaphorical holes to fill in'. Since nothing (virtually) will be spent on HS2 until 2015 that side of your argument doesn't hold water. If, in 2015, the economy is still in the same state it's in now I might side with your view.

"I just didn't think I needed to include the caveat of planning costs when it was obvious that any alternatives would also have planning costs."

Again, stop spending your time thinking of pathetic excuses for getting something wrong. You may as well say that the excavation work on HS2 will cost the taxpayer nothing because other similar projects involve excavation work.

Ludicrous!

"Since nothing (virtually) will be spent on HS2 until 2015 that side of your argument doesn't hold water."

More Slater inaccurate drivel. Justine Greening has stated that the costs in this parliament of HS2 will be over ?750 million. Given the nature of large-scale projects and the sensitivity of the issue we can expect this may well be an underestimate.

This might be virtually nothing to you but in comparison, the coalition government had planned to maroon 80,000 care home based disabled residents in order to save ?135 million a year. Thankfully they have been shamed to do yet another u-turn. But it gives you a good idea of who they are prepared to give a good kicking to to raise the "virtually nothing" you talk about.

Scrapping the mobility component of disability living allowance - worth up to ?50 a week - for publicly-funded care home residents and children in residential special schools. This money pays for transport for residents to leisure activities or to visit friends. It will affect 80,000 people, saving the government ?135m a year.

David,
I see your no condescension, no insulting, accepting of other's opinions and not always being right, New Year's resolution is going well.

"David,
I see your no condescension, no insulting, accepting of other's opinions and not always being right, New Year's resolution is going well."

First although I cannot recall every post I have made here over the Xmas and New Year period, I have no recall of the above New Year's resolution as described by your good self. If you can provide a link, from the last month or so, I would be delighted to be remnded.

But if you want to criticise me for going against something I have no recall of, be my guest. This is a technique loved by political parties everywhere.

I never said I was an angel, you know?

Condescending, yes sometimes.

Insulting, yes sometimes, but nowhere near as insulting as many, many posters on this forum.

Accepting of other's opinions. People can post whatever they want on here within the forum rules. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with them or they with my post.

Not always right. Clearly I am not always right and a perusal of this forum with the search function would show this, together with my acceptance of that.

Your sense of humour needs dusting off as well.