Multiculturalism has failed, says Cameron...

[David Johnson]

"Things are much better as far as all this is concerned now, in the 70s and 80s the situation was ridiculous and very unfair. The looney-Left, as they were then referred to, called the shots on everything. Thankfully not anymore."

Err, weren't the 70s and 80s dominated by the Tory party in government apart from a period of about 4 or 5 years when Labour were in?

If things are a lot better now as far as you are concerned, presumably this is due to the 13 years of Labour government?

Cheers
D

[Sam Slater]

I'm not sure if your questions are for my benefit or PH's.

Nevertheless, dedicating a separate thread just to tutor the forumites on how to debate in a peaceful, polite manner, would be very condescending......even for me!

[RoddersUK]

What a load of BOLLOCKS.
13 years of Labour govt?
Fer fucks sake, we are in deep shit because of Blair and the one eyed fucking idiot.

[David Johnson]

It would be helpful if you understood the purpose of a question mark.

A statement is when you say something is the case e.g.
"Things are a lot better now. This is due to the 13 years of Labour government."

But I didn't say that did I? A question mark indicates a sentence where you do not necessarily know the answer and are therefore asking a question.

I asked Max a question based on his argument that things were a lot worse in the 70s and 80's when he mistakenly thought the loony left were in charge. Max, not me, stated that things were a lot better now in regard to flying the flag of St. George. So I asked him this question, BASED ON HIS LOGIC,

"If things are a lot better now as far as you are concerned, presumably this is due to the 13 years of Labour government?

Got it, now Rodders?

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

Some wise words for you, Max on the subject of multiculturalism by the poet of Caribbean origin, Benjamin Zephaniah.

I'm an unashamed multiculturalist because I think that Britain, by its very nature, is multicultural. Britain does multiculturalism better than almost anywhere else in the world. There are more white and black people in the US, but there is less intermarriage, for example.

The problem is that when it's working no one complains. It doesn't make good news to say, "Today in Brixton the Chinese community lives alongside the Indian community which lives alongside the black community, and nothing happened. Everyone had a good time." But the moment something happens it's, "Multiculturalism must be questioned. Is one culture swamping another culture?" The opposite of multiculturalism is monoculturalism, and the last person to take that to its logical conclusion in a place where there were lots of cultures was Hitler.

When people talk about defending British culture, they have to talk about setting up a think tank to decide what British culture is, because nobody knows. A lot of the talk about multiculturalism is simply racism mixed with the idea of the "war on terror".

For example, some people put bombs on themselves. They went into London and blew the trains and the buses up. Then we watched videos of them saying, "We did this because of what you are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan and what you are allowing to happen to Palestinians." Yet people turn the television off and go, "Why did they do this?" It's like there's a massive elephant in the room called Iraq and it is ignored.

Cheers
D

[Jonone]

I take it Benjamin Z isn't prominent in the caribbean separatist movement in Bradford or elsewhere ?

[jimslip]

Max, I'm not sure that I agree with you. Imagine if you flew the Union flag, not the Cross of St George, but the Union Jack, outside your house, I'm sure nowadays you'd be branded a racist nutter.

I suppose the NF and other racists have corrupted the flag and made many people associate it with racism. Fancy that, fascist bastards hijacking the flag that symbolized freedom for the armed forces during WW2, who were fighting AGAINST Fascism!

Racist organisations always present themselves as being patriots! It brings to mind the famous quote in 1775 by Samuel Johnson, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel!"

How prophetic he was!

[Sam Slater]

A goodish post, David. Do any of us know what it is to be British? I don't.

I don't agree about the war being the cause of terrorism, though. 9/11 happened two years before we invaded Iraq. The Palestinian issue then? Well, it may be a reason but not the underlying one. How many of the terrorists on those three planes in 2001 were Palestinian? How many were Palestinian that bombed the tubes and buses in July '05? Answer: zero.

Most were Saudi Arabian, United Arab Emirati, and Pakistani. Now why would a Saudi Arabian kill Americans because of what some Palestinians are having to put up with? Like an onion we can peel away all the reasons that are easy to see, and obvious (America's support of Zionist expansion) but the underlying reason a Pakistani cares so much about what's happening in Palestine, and why he/she's willing to die and kill others in their cause is because of religion. Pure and simple religion.

If those Saudis, Emiratis or Pakistanis were Hindus or Buddhists would they have murdered hundreds of westerners like they did? No. How many Muslims have plotted terror attacks in China due to China's continued occupation of Tibet? Answer: zero. These terrorists don't give a fuck about invasions, occupations and the plight of the downtrodden. They care about other Muslims because they are religious extremists. To blame ourselves for their extremism is perverse. Lot's of Christian nations have this inbuilt longing for original sin. How, somehow, we're born dirty sinners and everything bad that befalls us in life is somehow our own worthless fault. Many of us have moved away from that loony thinking but it does pop up regularly from time to time when it comes to disasters and other important disputes. Maybe at times they're right, but I don't think this is one of them.

Supporting Israel and the Iraqi/Afghan wars certainly haven't helped, but I think it's wrong to say/imply they are the main cause of Muslim terrorists.

[David Johnson]

Not that I am aware of !wink!.

I'm trying to imagine what a Caribbean separatist area within Bradford would actually look like.

I guess you would be able to buy ackee, saltfish, yams and green bananas in every shop. There would be loads of takeways doing curried goat, beef patties, jerk chicken and pork. And the pubs would be full of oaps dancing incredibly well to reggae without spilling a drop out of their bottles of Red Stripe.

The bloody awful area outside Bradford Town Hall would be turned into a chillout zone with a beach and lagoon. Weekend would be carnival time and the Bradford Media Museum would regularly show Jimmy Cliff in The Harder they Come. And of course, Benjamin Zephaniah would be gigging most nights.

Hey, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea!!!

Cheers
D

[Dick Moby]

Fair enough Jim.I'll give you another scenario. I'll be going to a wedding in a couple of months and I'll be wearing the kilt that my father left me. It's made out of my clan tartan and I'll be proud to wear it simply because
1. it belonged to my father
2.it is my clan tartan and therefore represents my heritage.
Does that make me racist or simply proud of where I came from ?