Slavery: 200yrs on.

[Flat_Eric]

strictlybroadband wrote:

>>


In what way do they "still exist" and how were they "never addressed"?

Presumably you're referring to "black poverty" in the US. If so then yes, there are a lot of black people living in what we define as "poverty" in the States - but there are also a lot of whites, latinos and other ethnic groups who live in poverty as well, it's not just a black issue.

In any case, that poverty is nothing alongside the abject squalour that maybe 97% of Africans live in today on that continent. And there are also a lot of black people in the West who have done very, very well for themselves (although it's not usually very "fashionable" or "the done thing" to point to the success stories - far better to hand-wring and concentrate on the poverty issue).

So in that sense you could even argue that (in a roundabout, backhanded and perverse sort of way) slavery ultimately ended up benefiting the descendants of many slaves. Otherwise they'd probably all still be stuck in Africa, instead of enjoying the good life (or at least the "relative" good life) in the West. That's not to say I'm condoning slavery - not at all. But maybe you see what I'm getting at. I'm just saying that maybe that particular cloud ultimately had something of a silver lining when you look at the bigger picture over the course of history and not just on how it affected those who were personally involved at the time.

Also, maybe Africans (on that continent, I mean) should get their own house in order first, before conveniently blaming their predicament on the "white man"? Because over the past few decades the "white man" has poured untold billions into Africa to try and get that continent back on its feet - yet most of this (as someone, I think it was Dibble) pointed out earlier, the vast majority of this has just been pissed away spectacularly by dictators and corrupt African regimes.

Or perhaps you're referring to "discrimination" and "under-representation". If so yes, these things do still exist in some areas. But in the eyes of the law all people are equal, no matter what their skin colour is. Theoretically at least all citizens have the same opportunities (though granted this doesn't always work in practice). But you can't say that the problem hasn't been addressed.

[Sam Slater]

A couple of points I may like to add if I may?

Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Poland and Japan were in a real bad state after the 2nd world war. Germany and Japan were just about obliterated, and Britain bankrupt.

Japan and Germany received aid and did so well their economies were the best in the world (apart from the USA) for a number of years. Great Britain had massive debts and worked through it.

Africa has received more help and aid than Japan & Germany ever did, and Britain's debts after the war were easily on a par with African debt. (and British debt was not squashed like African debt has been).

Europe was in ruin less than 60 years back, and yet is the most influential continent on Earth, and one of the most successful. All during a time of no slavery whatsoever.

If we can do it................

[strictlybroadband]

Flat_Eric wrote:

> strictlybroadband wrote:
>
> abolished slavery 157 years ago. But the problems it caused
> still exist and were never addressed.>>>
>
>
> In what way do they "still exist" and how were they "never
> addressed"?
>
> Presumably you're referring to "black poverty" in the US. If so
> then yes, there are a lot of black people living in what we
> define as "poverty" in the States - but there are also a lot of
> whites, latinos and other ethnic groups who live in poverty as
> well, it's not just a black issue.

Yes, poverty goes across the board, but not evenly. Black males in American inner-cities have worse life expectancies than in many third world countries.

It's not just poverty though. I read an astounding figure, that one in eight of all prisoners in the world are black Americans. That figure takes some digesting. Black American represent about 0.5% of the world population but 12.5% of the world prison population. Doesn't sound to me like the issues caused by the slave trade have been resolved yet.

> In any case, that poverty is nothing alongside the abject
> squalour that maybe 97% of Africans live in today on that
> continent.

The poverty rate is about 50% in Africa - bad, but not as bad as the stereotype. But the difference being that some African economies are now on the up and up, and being black in Africa isn't an obstacle to success like it is in America. Sure, America now produces many successful black people, but many would be better off in a poorer country that didn't discriminate.

I could illustrate with many stories, but how about the fact that Florida police (and in other Southern states) put up road blocks to prevent blacks from voting in recent presidential elections? In fact, this alone may have secured the 2000 election for Bush.

[strictlybroadband]

Sam Slater wrote:

> Africa has received more help and aid than Japan & Germany ever
> did

I seriously doubt that. The Marshall plan represented an enormous American investment in Europe - nothing like that's been done for Africa - we put in pennies, often in a destructive way that damages local economies. For example the Americans put in almost no cash, but lots of free grain. Which means that African grain farmers can't make a living (how do you sell something that is given away free down the road?) Charities like Oxfam send tons of free clothing. So how can local clothing manufacturers make a living?

There has often been talk of a Marshall Plan for Africa, but it's never been put into action.

Some African economies are growing fast, and they'll become an example for the rest of the continent if they can sustain. South Africa and Ghana are both growing at similar rates to China I believe, but of course from a much lower base.

[c.j.jaxxon]

Hey! Hey! Hey! We need to learn to love one another y'all! I ain't puttin' no blame on white men. Now if you want me to I can throw some books at'em. Man! Sit down, have a cup a tea and I'll have some hot chocolate and let's be nice here. I'm not trying to make nobody angry. Slavery is no better no matter who did it but I was stating the difference on how slavery was met out on people. And yes, Africans are killing Africans today. I see that equal to what Iraqi people are doing to one another. If you get everybody fighting and killing against each other maybe one day there won't be any Africans left so the powers that be will have ALL of Africa's recources without having to negotiate for it. Same with Irag and IT'S oil. Think about it!

[c.j.jaxxon]

I said to Sam Slater that they're doing that already, Though not publicly.

[c.j.jaxxon]

You know what Eric? You make some good, good points but let me brake it down for you further. The late Richard Pryor said in a comedy routine he did, nobody cares when blacks suffer but when whites start suffering it's an epidemic. That wasn't a direct quote but it went something like that and it seems to be true. Blacks have always been low on the economic level and the first to suffer it's problems. Now whites are suffering economic hardships and now we are in the same boat all of a sudden. In other words, us blacks are use to it.

[c.j.jaxxon]

Thanks for those figures Strickly because if "I" have to throw the book at Sam on these things me and him will be sword fighting. With feather no less! !grin!

[Sam Slater]

Bah....forget what strictly says. Tomorrow he'll have Fifi La Douche saying the exact opposite! !laugh!

[c.j.jaxxon]

Hey! You leave him alone or I'll slap you with a heinious corpusle! !grin! !laugh!