BBC Radio 4 Moral Maze

[joe king]

Former vicar think it's all immoral - what a surprise.

[joe king]

Marks out of 10?
5.

Interesting waste of time.

[one eyed jack]

Ladies with their faces stuck down a WC . mm me think they know more than they should ....

Sound slike they were watching a Rocco movie. Good choice I say. I just want tto know if though their disgust did they get a bit of mahogany watching it. If it depraves and corrupt then theyd know for sure

Seriously though, they were banging on about this "simulated rape" nonsene that was winding me up. Porn is adult entertianentt made for the adult consumer market in the same way that major motion pictures are made for thhe big screen

Porn, like its mainstream cousins dos not have to be nice. I don't now many films I watch that are nice and fluffy. if anything is a lot of films are dark and bleak. Porn is made to stimulate and thats why its audience buy into it

I think those who accuse porn of being degrading and negative should check the model releases for thos emodels and ask them how they felt doing it. More often than not those models will say "Fuck yeah I loved it. I didnt come here to make love"

But people on these programmes dont want to hear that though. maybe Im just so far gone but what has morality got to do with how you get your kicks if it doesnt concern anyone else but the peroson you are doing it with and those who buy into it

Please note the operative word "buy" in that sentence. I shouldnt be held accountable for those who find it and get it for free

[Mysteryman]

Just listened to the Moral Maze on the Net.

Micheal Buerk's intro was sheer tabloid journalism, but that was to be expected as an "encouragement" to the listener to stay and to indicate to the panel where they should direct their thoughts. Be that as it may it lacked the balance as a scene setter for an objective debate.

Where it failed was in neglecting to state from the outset that porn is used and enjoyed by millions of ordinary people at varying levels, much of it is far removed from what many call the depiction of abusive, degrading and violent behaviour and, unfortunately, the pro porn lobby on the programme did very little to highlight this.

The problems of violence, child access and female degredation dominated the programme. These are matters the industry needs to address to establish the reality of the situation rather than the fevered outpourings of the anti brigade.

Jerry Barnett, as the only real industry witness, let himself be sidetrack into the alleys those on the panel opposed to porn opened up for him instead of taking control of his segment and, whilst accepting there are problem areas, highlighting the much wider issues and defeating some of the generally and regularly regurgitated fallacies put about through the media.

In essence, the programme highlighted the problems of the industry's PR. It badly needs spokespeople who perform, produce, distribute and use, who can argue logically, understand and deal with genuine concerns and have facts and figures at their finger tips and are used to taking ownership and control of a discussion so that, even if a programme asks for representation at a minute's notice, a clear, cogent and compelling case can be put.

[one eyed jack]

I listeneded to it as well

"unfortunately, the pro porn lobby on the programme did very little to highlight this"

From the start it was a full on ground assault on Jerry for daring to stand up for porn by refusing to say he was ashamed by association or found it morally wrong

Having listened to my fair share of these debates this was no better or worse than most. In fact they are all similar in that everyone has their own opinion and unwilling to hear any other sides but their own so the conclusion was the same as it has started

Heard the usual stuff..."Its immoral". "Its degrading". Its this, that and whatever the usual stuff is said about porn

I commend Jerry and Myles for fighting back the assault with sticks but unfortunately they werent gven much time to express any other opinion than that of defensive to themsselves. Jerry more so than Myles.

The topic totally missed its raison detre that it was due to the two convicted peado killers having "violent porn on their computers why we even had this programme rushed through

The point i would like to make is, who hasnt got porn on their computers these days? And what did the likes of Myra Hindley and Ian Brady do before the internet to give rise to the actions that imprisoned them both for life for multiple killings and sexual abuse crimes towards children?

Would the same opinion be made if they looked at pictures of Betty Page or manga and Hentai pics?

[Mysteryman]

A well briefed and determined debater could have turned the assault round. This is the whole point, unless the industry has an mouthpiece who can deal with such attacks then it will either forever be dealt with the same way or take Joe King's approach and refuse to take part. Neither approach will do it any good.

[rgb]

Mysteryman wrote:
>
> In essence, the programme highlighted the problems of the
> industry's PR. It badly needs spokespeople who perform,
> produce, distribute and use, who can argue logically,
> understand and deal with genuine concerns and have facts and
> figures at their finger tips and are used to taking ownership
> and control of a discussion so that, even if a programme asks
> for representation at a minute's notice, a clear, cogent and
> compelling case can be put.

That's a big ask - harder than most armchair critics who shout at the radio or TV think. Anyone that talented wouldn't be peddling porn !laugh!
Jerry Barnett and Anna Span do a pretty good job and are the best we've got - and I don't think either of them are primarily involved in porn any more.

[Mysteryman]

rgb, you come across as very intelligent as does OEJ. Having spent the whole of my working life pitching ideas, debating issues and defending ideals, including on radio and TV as a spokesperson for various organisations, I fully realise what it takes and either of you could well take on the task if you wished.

Were I 20 or 30 years younger I'd be interested in the role, but I'm not in the UK and am retired.

BTW, UK PussyTalk is much missed and could well have been used as an example of how women are not degraded, their willingness to participate and a site which most consenting adults would find acceptable.

[one eyed jack]

I've come to the conclusion that you can argue porns corner until you are blue in the face and still come out not making a difference to the critics because they need to believe that porn is responsible for the sickness in the real world

They are angry that those peadophiles could have no other reason than watching violent pornographic imagery because the deep religious belief that we are all born from sin ie a man and woman fucking is something to be ashamed of which is why the term immoral is used when it comes to porn

I'd want to say to those people of high standing that deep down, all this sleaze really excites them but in the face of civility they deny themselves and even lie to themselves to convince you what a bad thing pornography is and all they can latch onto is " a woman with her head down a toilet in simulated rape" not realising that most porn is not like that and made to fuel the desires of what producers think people fancy

If people are really honest with themselves, porn isnt that big a problem at all if you ocnsider the weebsit that mix porn with other extreme material like south drug cartel beheadings but as you said, complacency on the part of the business only allows the critics to attack it easily and unchallenged

The reluctance of many producers to partake in these events is because they know deep down its a waste of time arguing in defence of porn when they know more people admit to liking it than those who do not. Otherwise, why would the statistics quoted make a big deal that porn supercedes Netflix and Lovefilm combined?

The truth to this can be found in the fact that people use porn, secretly or otherwise because they enjoy it as a form of sexual release

Mores to the point they can never get rid of porn unless they wipe out the whole planet. They can shut down all the sites on the planet and porn will still find a way to get out there because its not about the producers, its all about the end users who help distribute it all over the place on the internet

If it was all about a bunch of R18 DVDs bought in a sex shop it wouldnt be an issue