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I agree Chloe, I have long been a fan of the US industry versus the UK industry but everything seems to run so smoothly over there and it makes you wonder just why we lag so far behind.

That being said, there seems to be great bit of resistance, from what i've seen, in adopting anything remotely American or from the US industry - almost as if 'we can do it on our own' kind of mentality.

One of the reasons is: we are not actually allowed to sell "physical product" over here unless we put it through an expensive censorship process and can find a licensed retail outlet that is not controlled by an exclusive cartel.

chloecruize wrote:


> why cant the UK just borrow their business models and apply
> them here?

Laws against closed shop agreements, rules on 'exclusive' contracts, and the British mindset of "rules are for other people" would stop it.





> if everyone acted like a professional, no one would have
> anything to compain about. right?

Until it affects you* negatively. Remember, these mythical fair rules would also have models paying photographers real world rates when they wanted some pictures. Never going to happen, is it?

*the collective you, not you personally.

I haven't asked a models rates for years, I have a shoot fee and don't even set the hours.

I have a budget for a shoot and I expect x amount of sets for that shoot, the time it takes is down to the model, experienced models can do it in 3 hours and inexperienced models can take up to 8 hours in the extreme cases.

From the face of it some might think the model is getting a bum deal, but the reality is I am, if models need a lot of direction and prep time shoots can drag on with myself having to do a lot more work, having to direct every pose sometimes, which believe me is mentaly exhausting.

Paying a flat hourly rate accross the board is ludicrous in my opinion, if I took that policy I would pay newbie models the same rate as an experienced model but get less sets & value for money.

Would you like to pay any other 'service' industry like a plumber in training full rate?
Skilled plumber takes an hour to do a job @?50 an hour = ?50
Newbie trainee plumber takes 3 hours to do the same job @?50 an hour = ?150 (takes longer and they are learning skills in YOUR time)

I think Peter is pretty much spot on, pro's have a budget and need to consider profit vs rates, offer a fee and let the model decide, I never wrangle rates.

I have also worked with many models who enjoy (as I do) a chilled out pace to a shoot, do the amount of work expected but not watching the clock, take breaks, review pics etc.

Nearly all of us producers amateur or pro know what we expect from a shoot and have different ways of working, I think the fees need to be set by the producer for their needs and budget, the model can decide if it's a fair rate.

My food for thought input.
SimonD
(ooops that was long winded! - I couldn't even be arsed to read the preview!)

Amateur or Pro? if they have previous evidence of their work why should there be any difference in their pay. if you would a Pro ?250 why not an amateur...this is why it would not work. Am /Pro some would still think they are worth more & want an higher pay.
Producers if you advertise a price stick to it & the same for models don't moan about rates offered..if its not enough move on to the next job.
Depending on how big the company is rates will vary but you can't expect an amateur producer to pay the same as Playboy or TVX etc, if its not a rate you want look around.

why cant the UK just borrow their business models and apply them here?

Several factors..Most notably because many in this business are in it for a shag because its cheaper than getting an escort or like getting an escort with the cahnce they might get a return back on their investment to shag another girl.

Lets not think all amercians are great either. this mentality prevails with americans too.

Sitting in the back of an agents car in prague having picked me and this US prioducer up form the airport I found the producer was a hobbyist that enjoyed shagging known named porn stars as a regula guy doing so and putting it up on his site. Thing is he paid agency rates so he doesnt really count but it was more the mentality and some would argue porn is wholly based on that or we are all lying LOL.

RGB wrote: One of the reasons is: we are not actually allowed to sell "physical product" over here unless we put it through an expensive censorship process and can find a licensed retail outlet that is not controlled by an exclusive cartel.

A very valid reason for why things are the way they are and why the standard opf rates had to be discussed if only just to advise models as a guide and not as people would think, mandated and endorsed as an offical standard

There was a time when people were comfortable with a ?150 fee for a quick 20 minute scene but the truth is many people really took the living piss out of that and demanded photosets, solo wanking videos that by th etime a girl was done she was unfit for her next booking the next day because he rpussy was so sore not being able to naturally get wet from being stimulated naturally tends to do that.

Inflating fees to ?500 for bg would only severely reduce that models rate if she demanded that for every job. So my advice would be to be flexible, makes sure you know what you are doing for what amount and if there are any hidden extras, by this I mean an extra 20 minute solo then that should be negotiated before you tun up to the job.

Amateurs are important to the growth of the industry. They are usually the last line of employment when the pros have to take time out duing times of recession.

I would suggest models negotiate a reasonable fee based on the standard fees but htis will include signed model releases and i'ds.

In the event it is to build a portfolion ad paperwork is not necessary then a lower fee can be agreed but if you are shagging the cameraman pov stylee I would suggest you make sure they have their paperwork is in order, HIV and STD certs otherwise if you have a shoot booked to work with a pro company people will not be happy getting an std from a random serial amateur in it for a leg over.