Bob Crow has died...

[max_tranmere]

I've scanned over those two articles, the Winter of Discontent certainly caused huge problems for the country and the government completely lost control. They had no idea what to do. I remember Roy Hattersley saying many years later that the grave diggers strike, where bodies were piling up in warehouses and they had to consider carrying out burials at sea, had 'a very profound effect on the Prime Minister'. Hattersley said 'Jim [Callaghan] could not believe that trade unionists wouldn't bury the dead'. The nation was 6 weeks away from food shortages because the lorry driver's were on strike and essential goods, food, coal and everything else was not getting to where it was meant to get to. The nation faced paralysis.

Tom McNally, now Lord McNally of the Lib Dems, was Jim Callaghan's right-hand man in 1979. He said on that documentary I watched a few years ago that when Callaghan got back from a work-related trip Callaghan was asked about the 'mounting chaos in the country' by a journalist, and responded with "that is an assertion you are making, if you look around you will see the country is not in crisis or chaos". Tom McNally said on the programme that "what Jim said was not 'crisis what crisis' but what he said was not far away from 'crisis what crisis'. He asked for it [the headline in The Sun newspaper the next day] and I'm afraid he got it".

[max_tranmere]

"so what age does Max think he should have died ?"

52 is certainly premature. Most people die at 80 or 90.

[max_tranmere]

It's a tricky one, a lot of what defines someone's class is their manner and background. Wayne Rooney would probably be defined as working class because that is his manner and background, even though he pulls in more each WEEK than most middle or upper class people do in 6 years (?300k)!

You could have some very posh spoken person, with a very posh manner and walk, but they've fallen on hard times and are now living in a studio flat in Peckham. They are so broke they have to walk a mile to the supermarket as they can't afford the bus fare, but you would probably view them as middle class because that is how they come across.

I agree with the point about the train drivers on huge salaries and how it is odd they're regarded as 'working class'. Imagine a scenario where dustmen were paid ?100k annually, do they then become middle class or upper class? Probably not. They will be viewed as being working class, I am sure, because it is a manual, largely unenvious (apart from the salary in that instance) kind of job.

It's a tricky one, this whole class business.

[max_tranmere]

Ken Livingstone said, and I touched upon this in my OP, that the only working-class people in London now with good salaries and pensions are the transport workers - and that is because of Bob Crow. They do very well indeed, their salaries are certainly high. It could be argued that a train driver has a much easier job than a bus driver, yet train drivers are paid vastly more. I wonder if the successor to Bob Crow will have the same impact he did. There will be no shortage of applicants, what with the huge salary (?140k), pension and perks. There is something very strange about Lefties, liking the unfairness of society if it is them who are higher up. Ramsay MacDonald, Britain's first Labour Prime Minister back in the 1920's, lived in a huge mansion in Hampstead, north London (one of Britain's most expensive areas). He was constantly criticised for his hypocrisy and tried to defend it by saying "I have a very large library and need a big house to keep it in". I said earlier how the communists in Russia lived in mansions with butlers and chauffer-driven Rolls Royce's. People on the Left are full of inconsistencies.

[David Johnson]

Like a lot of people you are hung up on Labour supporters/politicians who are well off.

It is as if unless a Labour MP doesn't live in a council house or have his arse hanging out of his trousers he is a hypocrite.

Ramsey Macdonald is a very bad choice that you make He was the illegitimate son of a Scottish farm labourer. Hardly a silver spoon upbringing, Max? And being a Prime Minister, you would expect him to be paid accordingly.

Clem Attlee was the son of a solicitor and went to prep school. He was prime minister of the great reforming government that created the NHS. I am far more interested in their policies than whether they are poor or well off.

As far as I am concerned if the money they have is obtained legally and morally e.g. not using various tax fiddles, I don't have a problem with it.