Nelson Mandela has died....

[David Johnson]

"David, everything you've said as to why Mandela was a freedom fighter and not a terrorist could be applied to the IRA in Northern Ireland."

Max, there is absolutely no sensible comparison between how Catholics in Northern Ireland and black people in South Africa were treated.

Read this



to understand more and realise that any analogy between South Africa and Northern Ireland is meaningless.

[william]

whats wrong with blond and blue eyed frauleins anyways ? you think that we would have been worse off if Germany had won ?

In case Im sadly mistaken but isnt the powerhouse of Europe Germany ?

Maybe if Hitler had invaded and knocked fuck out of us we wouldnt be in such a fucking mess now........

Anyways Mandella was a terrorist simple.

[max_tranmere]

It was certainly worse for the black South Africans than it was for the Catholics in Northern Ireland. I've just read that thing you linked to. It wasn't the brutal removal of black people from their areas and the resettlement of them which started the ANC's militant campaign though, it was the Sharpeville Massacre where 69 black people were shot dead by State forces. The Bloody Sunday massacre in Derry, Northern Ireland, in 1972 where 14 unarmed Catholics were shot dead - a number of them were teenagers who were shot in the back as they ran away from soldiers - was what started the IRA's war, known as 'The Troubles' , against Britain. That lasted 25 years.

Here is a short interview with Mandela from 1961. He talks towards the end of upping the ante and fighting fire with fire, moving from passive resistance to aggressive militant resistance - because that is what the other side is doing:



Sharpeville and Bloody Sunday:

[max_tranmere]

If Germany had won the war we would have had a very politicised Police force, who would basically be an arm of the ruling party. There would be little democracy, all influential people, from writers to historians, would have been interned in jail or even 'spirited away', we would be a very watched people, we would only be taught German history and be forced to speak German, and all Jews, and the few ethnic minority people there were in Britain back then, would have been taken out of the country and exterminated. In terms of day-to-day living, all the things white people in Britain have done in the last week they would have been able to do: go to work, go to the pub, visit friends, etc, they would just have to watch what they say and remain impartial on political things, unless it was things the ruling lot were in to. It would have been a very oppressive country to live in. Also, all artworks and treasures from Britain would have been removed and shipped to Berlin because Hitler was a big collector of those things.

[David Johnson]

"It was certainly worse for the black South Africans than it was for the Catholics in Northern Ireland. I've just read that thing you linked to. It wasn't the brutal removal of black people from their areas and the resettlement of them which started the ANC's militant campaign though, it was the Sharpeville Massacre where 69 black people were shot dead by State forces. The Bloody Sunday massacre in Derry, Northern Ireland, in 1972 where 14 unarmed Catholics were shot dead - a number of them were teenagers who were shot in the back as they ran away from soldiers - was what started the IRA's war, known as 'The Troubles' , against Britain. That lasted 25 years. "

Again Max you are poorly informed. Bloody Sunday did not start the Provisional's campaign in 1972. British soldiers were being killed by the Provisional IRA before then as were Loyalists killed.

[max_tranmere]

'Bloody Sunday did not start the Provisional's campaign in 1972'.

It moved it from a trickle to a torrent, the thing really went into overdrive after that. People were queuing down the streets to join the IRA after Bloody Sunday and the organisation went from being modestly sized to being very big indeed.

[max_tranmere]

It's now Friday afternoon and we still haven't heard from Paul Hewson, aka Bono. Maybe he's still asleep in his games room at his Dublin pad. I remember when Aung San Suu Kyi, the recently released (from house arrest) Burma civil rights leader, visited Ireland. Bono was next to her, giving a speech about what she had done and represented, and so on. He is bound to have something to say about Mandela's passing - keep your eyes on the TV later today or tomorrow. I doubt he will just give his views whilst being door-stepped by the media either, it will be from behind a lectern in a very formal setting, speaking in his 'world statesman' mode.

[David Johnson]

It did not start the Provisional's campaign. This is what you said. You were wrong.

Just as you were wrong to try and make a sensible comparison between the Catholics in Northern Ireland and the treatment of black people in South Africa.

[max_tranmere]

Bono has commented!



Here is U2's 'Mandela song', released recently (prior to his recent passing obviously):

[Robches]

Never mind Bono, what has Geri Halliwell had to say?