Multiculturalism

[David Johnson]

"Would it be acceptable for Islam to become the minority thing in Saudi Arabia?"

A few facts for you Max.

In the 2011 Census, Christianity was the largest religion, with 33.2 million people (59.3 per cent of the population). The second largest religious group were Muslims with 2.7 million people (4.8 per cent of the population).

14.1 million people, around a quarter of the population in England and Wales, reported they have no religion in 2011.

It looks like CHristianity will become a "minority" thing if trends continue as they are. NOT BECAUSE OF ISLAM, MAX, but because people increasingly describe themselves as having no religion.

Given you clearly regard this as unacceptable, what do you propose? Enforced church worship?

"I feel they should act like Brits"

How do Brits act? Please provide details and I can have a go myself.

[max_tranmere]

David we discussed this before, about how somehow can live their lives within the framework of a Christian society but not be a practicing Christian as such. That is me: I do not believe in god, I don't go to Church, but I celebrate Christmas, would most likely get married in a church, want any kids I had to do Harvest Festival at school, and so on. That is my culture, even though I'm not religious. So to get specific: I am not a practicing Christian, but I'm into Christianity. A lot of the people you refer to as being of no religion in Britain are most likely the same as that.

On the issue of acting like a Brit, I am talking about things like being in favour of freedom of speech (which can sometimes mean freedom to offend), equality for women and gay people, speaking our language if they are a British citizen, regarding themselves as British, showing as much loyalty to here as they demand loyalty from here, and so on. We have had this discussion already.

[David Johnson]

"That is me: I do not believe in god, I don't go to Church, but I celebrate Christmas,would most likely get married in a church"

Then clearly you are not a Christian, nor are you living within the "framework of a Christian society". How on earth do you think that you are part of Christian society when you don't believe in God?

"A lot of the people you refer to as being of no religion in Britain are most likely the same as that."

Wrong. For example, with regard to church weddings which you indicate as an example of your links to a "Christian society", in 2009 there was the lowest number of church weddings since Victorian times. There are more unmarried couples than married couples. Again, nothing to do with immigrants but the choices that British people who have lived here all their lives have made.

So in short, Max you are demanding immigrants adhere to a concept of British society that you yourself do not adhere too and furthermore the majority of born in Britain, British people do not adhere to.

And the decline in this adherence has nothing much to do with immigration which you bang on endlessly about on this forum and generally blame Muslims for, but more to do with the fact that people like yourself and those like you don't adhere to this "Hollywood" concept of British society you describe with church weddings and a Christian society with Harvest festivals etc etc.

[max_tranmere]

"Then clearly you are not a Christian, nor are you living within the "framework of a Christian society". How on earth do you think that you are part of Christian society when you don't believe in God?"

Because, as I keep saying, I live my life within the framework of a Christian society. I celebrate Christmas, would most likely get married in a church, would want any kids of mine to mark Harvest Festival, and so on. All of my family are like this, so are all of my friends - but none are church goers, none ever pray, none would identify themselves specifically as practicing Christians.

"Wrong. For example, with regard to church weddings which you indicate as an example of your links to a "Christian society", in 2009 there was the lowest number of church weddings since Victorian times. There are more unmarried couples than married couples. Again, nothing to do with immigrants but the choices that British people who have lived here all their lives have made."

I was talking about those, who would want to make official their relationship, getting married in a church. I wasn't talking about how everyone who (to use the expression again) lives their life loosely within the framework of a Christian society are bound to get married. Some just stay together for life without getting married. You seem to have misunderstood what I said - there may be low levels of church weddings now, but most of the people in this country who celebrate Christmas, etc, would likely get married in a church IF they got married. Some would go to a registry office, many would go to a church.

"So in short, Max you are demanding immigrants adhere to a concept of British society that you yourself do not adhere too and furthermore the majority of born in Britain, British people do not adhere to."

I do, I support and have liberal western values, unlike many of the things Islam has within it - as I keep saying. I live my life (here we go again!) loosely withing the framework of a christian society and many things that are part of Christianity I have as part of my culture, as I keep saying. I think you'll find that the majority of people born in Britain do also. The number of people celebrating Christmas in Britain will exceed the number who are practicing, church going Christians.

"immigration which you bang on endlessly about on this forum".

I think you'll find that most of my posts about this subject are in reply to other people's posts, most are responding to direct questions to me on this issue. I didn't start this thread, I wrote ONE post on here, then people like you and others came back at me with questions so I replied, then more questions, so I replied again. What am I supposed to do, ignore yours and other people's questions to me on this subject? I started the "Europe's biggest mosque for east London" thread a short while ago, and further comments from me on that thread are replying to points raised by others. The "Race Issues" thread I started as a positive about things to do with race, largely as a follow-on from the "Immigration" thread and this "Multiculturalism" thread - both of which were started by other people.

So much of what I've said in this post I've said before - some of it a few times. I should record it all and play it on a loop for all Forum-ites to hear. It saves me having to keep typing it over and over again.

[David Johnson]

"I live my life within the framework of a Christian society."

Max, you are delusional. You don't believe in God. You don't go to church. You would probably get married in a church. That is NOT the framework of a Christian society - getting married in church and sticking a Xmas tree up once a year and getting pissed! OK? This is like someone saying they are into devotional music because they watch the X Factor. Get real.

Point 2. Initially you stated below

" Would it be acceptable for Islam to become the minority thing in Saudi Arabia? I don't think it would be. "

This implies that it is immigrants which are affecting the adherence to Christianity in the UK. You must understand that the key reason that people LIKE YOU are not part of a framework of a Christian society is not down to immigration but more down to the choices made by white British.

Which is why I posted SOME FACTS instead of your endless guesses or ramblings

"In the 2011 Census, Christianity was the largest religion, with 33.2 million people (59.3 per cent of the population). The second largest religious group were Muslims with 2.7 million people (4.8 per cent of the population).

14.1 million people, around a quarter of the population in England and Wales, reported they have no religion in 2011.

It looks like CHristianity will become a "minority" thing if trends continue as they are. NOT BECAUSE OF ISLAM, MAX, but because people increasingly describe themselves as having no religion."

So in short Max, you are not part of a Christian framework, you are a Godless heathen who just takes the best bits - getting rat arsed at Xmas.

ANd you are totally obsessed with some make believe world where most people want to get married in church and go to Harvest festivals. They don't

Which is why I posted "in 2009 there was the lowest number of church weddings since Victorian times. There are more unmarried couples than married couples. Again, nothing to do with immigrants but the choices that British people who have lived here all their lives have made."

Again NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRANTS.

Get a grip Max please!

[Flat_Eric]

David Johnson wrote:

> .... you are a Godless heathen who just takes the best bits - getting
> rat arsed at Xmas.


Can't fault it!! !drink!

- Eric

[David Johnson]

Yes, I am setting up a new religion which does just that.

Doesn't believe in God but gets pissed at Xmas. We may have a Harvest festival or two. I'll make you Archbishop Eric if you fancy it!

[max_tranmere]

David, I don't know what else I can say about this. We've debated it to death.

[David Johnson]

YOu can't say anything because you are talking utter tripe.

I will leave you to carry on in your belief that a Godless, non-church attending heathen like yourself is living your life as part of a Christian framework, because you stick a Xmas tree up and might fancy getting married in a church.

Words fail me Max. They really do.

[max_tranmere]

Have the last word David, as ever.