The Beatles

[max_tranmere]

You are right that Fleetwood Mac outsold the Beatles and the Stones combined in 1969, I saw their then manager Clifford Davies on TV a few years ago saying such. Peter Green, singer, songwriter, iconic blues guitarist, driving force for the band, etc, then started to lose his mind from having been spiked with LSD. Before long he was gone from the band and was homeless in London - having previously been a millionaire. It's very sad what happened to Peter Green.

[Random Bloke]

I love the Peter Green era of Mac. It is really sad what happened to him, especially through the 70s and 80s. The first album's still fresh cos it's so stripped down and simple. Some of the playing on Then Play On is frightening!

[Arginald Valleywater]

Not sure about the stat that they have sold more records than anyone else? AFAIK AC/DC's masterpiece Back in Black is the world's biggest selling album. The only Bealtes album that ever features in mega seller lists in Sgt Pepper, an album I like but very mixed in quality. My personal fave is Abbey Road, more because it is better played and produced.
My mother saw them at The Lonsdale in Carlisle and heard nothing. The audience screamed all through the show. She rated The Kinks and Englebert much higher!

[max_tranmere]

I really like the early Fleetwood Mac too, I have a couple of their albums.

I don't think any band in history fell apart quite like they did, not only Peter Green but Danny Kirwan ended up a homeless alcoholic (I think he is still homeless today - you can apparently see him around Covent Garden in London) and Jeremy Spencer went bonkers and joined one of the those mad religious cults in America. Of the original five members the only ones who didn't go crackers were Mick Fleetwood and John McVie. The fall for the other three was very large indeed, from millionaire rock stars to nothing.

I remember Clifford Davis, their manager, saying it was whilst on tour in America that Jeremy Spencer spun out. Spencer and John Mcvie were sharing a hotel room, and Spencer went out and never returned. Word got back to the band a day or two later that Jeremy Spencer had joined the Children Of God. Clifford Davis said he went down there and it was very frightening as he had to enter alone. He went in, walked around the large building which was full of naked stoned hippies and eventually found Jeremy Spencer. Davis said on this documentary I watched: "there he was, he'd shaven all his hair off, and he sat there on the floor, naked, staring at me." Davis said to him "I just want to know one thing: are you here of your own free will?". Jeremy Spencer replied "yes, I'm happy here Clifford." Clifford Davis then left.

Peter Green eventually moved into the spare room of a woman's house in Surbiton, in the suburbs of south-west London, after years of homelessness. The woman was trying to help him, get him back on the straight and narrow, and she was also trying to manage him in his attempt to get back into music. He was interviewed around that time (about 10 years ago) and he said: "I've read interesting things about my former band mates. Like how John McVie not only has several mansions but also has a large yacht. Don't you think he ought to be saying 'thank you' to me for his houses and his yacht?". Peter Green ended up with nothing, the bass player John McVie ended up living in Beverly Hills and London, and has a large boat. Mick Fleetwood ended up with a similar life to John McVie. Jeremy Spencer lost his mind, so did Danny Kirwan and Peter Green.

All very sad.

[max_tranmere]

I read some excepts from 'The Lives of John Lennon' by Albert Goldman a few years ago. This book was heavily criticised for the awful slating it gives Lennon on nearly every page and it apparently made Yoko Ono consider suicide. One thing Goldman says which interested me was how one or several American distributors bought the rights to several Beatles films and there was small print in the contracts about how they would get the albums that 'accompany' the films aswell. In reality these huge Beatles albums were the core things and the films accompanied them, but the American buyers did it in such a way that they bought the rights to the movies and got the albums as an add-on. I don't think the Beatles realised what they were signing away. The result: the Beatles received much less money for album sales in America on the albums they released (that also had a movie of the same name) because the distributors there got hold of them through the back door. The band were basically ripped off. People made vast money off them in the USA. I will one day read the whole of Goldman's book but it is so long that it will take ages to read.

[muswell]

The Beatles set the pace when the music scene in England was full of top quality acts. I was a Stones fan and there were plenty of other groups that got my few bob for their records rather than the Fab Four. However they changed things and allowed a lot of what the music scene was to become to flourish. Also unlike the Stones they didn't outstay their welcome.
If there are any great groups around now I'd like to know of them as they don't make it to any of the places where I can hear them, the radio DJ's of today are not to my taste as girl groups, boy groups, rap, hip hop, trance, and what is now called R&B don't float my boat.

[JamesW]

max_tranmere wrote:

> distributors bought the rights to several Beatles films and
> there was small print in the contracts about how they would get
> the albums that 'accompany' the films aswell. In reality these
> huge Beatles albums were the core things and the films
> accompanied them, but the American buyers did it in such a way
> that they bought the rights to the movies and got the albums as
> an add-on. I don't think the Beatles realised what they were
> signing away. The result: the Beatles received much less money
> for album sales in America on the albums they released (that
> also had a movie of the same name) because the distributors
> there got hold of them through the back door. The band were
> basically ripped off.


This story sounds a bit dodgy. United Artists distributed the Beatles films in the USA and also the album of the first film, A Hard Day's Night. But the following 2 film albums, Help! and Yellow Submarine were distributed in the USA by Capitol. So as far as I can see, the story related by max appears not to be correct. I know that the Beatles agreed a contract with UA for 3 films and put out Yellow Submarine, which they barely appeared in, just as a way of completing the 3 film deal, as they had got bored with making films by then.

[number 6]

The greatest albums of all time without a doubt. Much copied but never ever bettered.

[trillery]

max_tranmere wrote:

> I will one day read the whole of Goldman's book but it is
> so long that it will take ages to read.

This is the book that Paul McCartney called "a piece of trash" and a "bunch of lies". Producer George Martin said it would have been libel if John was still alive and was "100% codswallop". Author Phillip Norman who also wrote a biography of Lennon said the Goldman book was "malevolent" and "ignorant".

[Flat_Eric]

trillery wrote:

> This is the book that Paul McCartney called "a piece of trash"
> and a "bunch of lies". Producer George Martin said it would
> have been libel if John was still alive and was "100%
> codswallop". Author Phillip Norman who also wrote a biography
> of Lennon said the Goldman book was "malevolent" and
> "ignorant".


You don't recommend it then? !confused!

- Eric !wink!