Matt is partly correct, I should know as I have been involved with the reviewing of the new white paper and have paid the top UK laywers look at it. The law is simple how people interpret is not.
so here it is,
You can have 18R films sent from Europe provided they are purchased there.
You cannot have any material you like, which in anyones opinion may pass a BBFC 18R including customs. They choose not to procecute because it would be to complecated for them.
The company who post uncertified videos break both UK & Euro law and could be procecuted in the UK and whatever country they are registered in. But who would procecute, the BBFC use the criminal legal system to uphold their laws so they could but I doubt it.
A good example of this system is Spain where you could not sell a BBFC 18R video unless it has been homologated once it has you can sell it regardless of the content so maybe the UK is now not so strange.
I believe all videos on sale in this country should be classified not at the outrageous price of ?11.68 per minute and you should provided you can give proof of age be allowed to buy them via mail order or direct sales. I Have agreements this month to set a guide price with most of my distributers of ?15.00 so that should be what you pay for my tapes. And in Soho that is the current price.
ATTN: Vidshop
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Pasta
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
Given some of the people who look at what is written here, I won't go into anymore detail about how companies distribute within the UK - suffice to say that this method is most likely to defeat Customs, WHATEVER the content of the video. Goods are still checked at random when posted into the UK (according to Customs website) and any company who is repeatedly caught out would surely lose business and money. It is daft, I know, the person posting the tapes in the UK is the one who will take the fall.
I won't repeat what woodgnome has posted - but I my experience clearly the only issues that the BBFC really bothers about when certificating porn these days are the legality of the acts shown, the clear expression of consent, and any violence. Other than that, multi-partner sex, cumshots, anal - it's all in there, no problem.
For example, one of the recent Pirate (Private) titles passed R18 features group sex but was cut for use of a ball-gag. This is around the point where they draw the line at present. Although I am sure that they will contradict me soon enough!
I won't repeat what woodgnome has posted - but I my experience clearly the only issues that the BBFC really bothers about when certificating porn these days are the legality of the acts shown, the clear expression of consent, and any violence. Other than that, multi-partner sex, cumshots, anal - it's all in there, no problem.
For example, one of the recent Pirate (Private) titles passed R18 features group sex but was cut for use of a ball-gag. This is around the point where they draw the line at present. Although I am sure that they will contradict me soon enough!
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David J
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
The position on mail order from within the UK as compared with from outside the UK may seem bizzare, but as a former civil servant I can quite understand the policy of Customs (as described in earlier messages).
WITHIN the UK it is clear that all activities, including mail order sales and distribution, are subject to UK statutes. These prohibit the sale of R18 videos anywhere except in licensed sex shops. You may disagree with the law, but it is quite clear what it is.
The position on IMPORTS into the UK is not so clear. On the one hand, Customs have a power to confiscate imports that are 'indecent'. But on the other hand, the UK has signed up to various international obligations on free trade, notably the EC treaties, but also the GATT and its successors. These treaties prohibit discriminatory restrictions on imports, but they usually contain 'get-out clauses' permitting signatories to protect 'public morality', etc. But any lawyer would advise Customs that they cannot exercise these provisions as a pretext to block imports in favour of UK suppliers. Since UK suppliers are allowed to sell hardcore vids meeting BBFC guidelines, it would be unfair discrimination against overseas suppliers if vids of the same character were blocked.
At least, that's how I would reconstruct the thinking behind the present policy. It is quite consistent, even if it leads to odd results.
WITHIN the UK it is clear that all activities, including mail order sales and distribution, are subject to UK statutes. These prohibit the sale of R18 videos anywhere except in licensed sex shops. You may disagree with the law, but it is quite clear what it is.
The position on IMPORTS into the UK is not so clear. On the one hand, Customs have a power to confiscate imports that are 'indecent'. But on the other hand, the UK has signed up to various international obligations on free trade, notably the EC treaties, but also the GATT and its successors. These treaties prohibit discriminatory restrictions on imports, but they usually contain 'get-out clauses' permitting signatories to protect 'public morality', etc. But any lawyer would advise Customs that they cannot exercise these provisions as a pretext to block imports in favour of UK suppliers. Since UK suppliers are allowed to sell hardcore vids meeting BBFC guidelines, it would be unfair discrimination against overseas suppliers if vids of the same character were blocked.
At least, that's how I would reconstruct the thinking behind the present policy. It is quite consistent, even if it leads to odd results.
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woodgnome
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
i've been into virtually every licensed sex shop in soho over the past week and the universal price for all r18 releases, including your own, is currently ?20.
congratulations, by the way - your tapes were more widely available than any others on the market.
don't tapes have to be heterologated as well?
totally agree about the charges levied by the bbfc. i'm open to correction but i understand that the finnish government recently decide to abolish all classification procedures.
you can release whatever material you want, provided it is appropriate to the classification you choose and that none of the content breaks the law of the land.
if you breach either of these conditions you are obviously liable for prosecution.
if we can abolish dog licenses i don't see why we cant get rid of the bbfc. adherence to classification categories and the law are all you need, if you do away with state censorship.
far too scandanavian and sensible to happen here, of course!
congratulations, by the way - your tapes were more widely available than any others on the market.
don't tapes have to be heterologated as well?
totally agree about the charges levied by the bbfc. i'm open to correction but i understand that the finnish government recently decide to abolish all classification procedures.
you can release whatever material you want, provided it is appropriate to the classification you choose and that none of the content breaks the law of the land.
if you breach either of these conditions you are obviously liable for prosecution.
if we can abolish dog licenses i don't see why we cant get rid of the bbfc. adherence to classification categories and the law are all you need, if you do away with state censorship.
far too scandanavian and sensible to happen here, of course!
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woodgnome
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
thank you for stating the current situation in a succinct manner that even i can understand! 
basically, uk law is being rendered an ass by cirucumstances beyond it's control, so let's hope someone can de-assify it asap.
basically, uk law is being rendered an ass by cirucumstances beyond it's control, so let's hope someone can de-assify it asap.
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Callipygea
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
woodgnome wrote:
>
> it is that simple!
>
> the content merely has to conform with bbfc guidelines for
> r18 certification. it doesn't have to go before the board for
> any sort of approval. the evaluation of any tape passing
> through customs is made by customs officers. if in their
> judgement it complies with current bbfc parameters, then they
> are obliged to let it through - at least in theory.
If in their judgement???????
That's why it's not simple. If you get some anti-porn nutter
his judgement will be that the film doesn't conform. Then you have to argue it out. Result: it's still a complete lottery whether you'll get your film, unless it has previously been given an R18 cert.
>
> it is that simple!
>
> the content merely has to conform with bbfc guidelines for
> r18 certification. it doesn't have to go before the board for
> any sort of approval. the evaluation of any tape passing
> through customs is made by customs officers. if in their
> judgement it complies with current bbfc parameters, then they
> are obliged to let it through - at least in theory.
If in their judgement???????
That's why it's not simple. If you get some anti-porn nutter
his judgement will be that the film doesn't conform. Then you have to argue it out. Result: it's still a complete lottery whether you'll get your film, unless it has previously been given an R18 cert.
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Callipygea
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
woodgnome wrote, inter alia:
> ......
> if we can abolish dog licenses i don't see why we cant get
> rid of the bbfc. adherence to classification categories and
> the law are all you need, if you do away with state censorship.
......
Quite so. The guidelines are admirably clear, and permit almost all consensual, non-violent, adult sexual activity. No need for the BBFC, just let the police prosecute any video producer whose material breaches the guidelines. And, of course, allow mail order sales of self-classified R18 videos provided a credit card is used for payment. That guarantees the buyer is over 18.
As you say, far too simple to happen here.
> ......
> if we can abolish dog licenses i don't see why we cant get
> rid of the bbfc. adherence to classification categories and
> the law are all you need, if you do away with state censorship.
......
Quite so. The guidelines are admirably clear, and permit almost all consensual, non-violent, adult sexual activity. No need for the BBFC, just let the police prosecute any video producer whose material breaches the guidelines. And, of course, allow mail order sales of self-classified R18 videos provided a credit card is used for payment. That guarantees the buyer is over 18.
As you say, far too simple to happen here.
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Pasta
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
Yeah, thanks David for that comment. However, the policy does create a situation which actually discriminates against UK suppliers. They cannot legally supply a legal product within the UK by mail order! Yet a foreign company CAN supply the same product by mail order.
Are there any other products which face a similar restriction - we are not talking about firearms here?
Are there any other products which face a similar restriction - we are not talking about firearms here?
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woodgnome
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
if the rumours are true things could be about to get even less simple, not to say contentious.
whispers at westminster have it that, after the tories get stuffed at the election, jack straw will be shuffled off to something more "important" like religious affairs and the new home secretary will be that new labour model of christian rectitude - david blunkett.
the scenario being painted is that he will immediately push for new legislation outlawing everything currently permitted under r18 classification.
so, you have the prospect of a blind man denying the sighted, the freedom to use their eyes as they see fit - quite literally folks!
could it happen? well, one of the bbfc's board members for many years in the early part of the last century was in fact clinically blind. apparently though, in his favour, he was a good sort!!
i suppose it could be construed as sweet revenge for the historic discrimination endured by people of blunkett's condition, at least until recently but still... me thinks it could give rise to a v. heated debate!
whispers at westminster have it that, after the tories get stuffed at the election, jack straw will be shuffled off to something more "important" like religious affairs and the new home secretary will be that new labour model of christian rectitude - david blunkett.
the scenario being painted is that he will immediately push for new legislation outlawing everything currently permitted under r18 classification.
so, you have the prospect of a blind man denying the sighted, the freedom to use their eyes as they see fit - quite literally folks!
could it happen? well, one of the bbfc's board members for many years in the early part of the last century was in fact clinically blind. apparently though, in his favour, he was a good sort!!
i suppose it could be construed as sweet revenge for the historic discrimination endured by people of blunkett's condition, at least until recently but still... me thinks it could give rise to a v. heated debate!
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Pasta
Re: Vidshop- shipping from Europe
woodgnome wrote:
>
> if the rumours are true things could be about to get even
> less simple, not to say contentious.
>
> whispers at westminster have it that, after the tories get
> stuffed at the election, jack straw will be shuffled off to
> something more "important" like religious affairs and the new
> home secretary will be that new labour model of christian
> rectitude - david blunkett.
>
> the scenario being painted is that he will immediately push
> for new legislation outlawing everything currently permitted
> under r18 classification.
>
Erk!
I don't know about rumours, but looking at the White Paper referred to by the BBFC site, it is suggested that video classification be taken away from the BBFC (they oppose it). Instead it will be done by the govt. dept. OFCOM. This is clearly an attempt to undermine the BBFC liberalisation, after all they have done nothing contentious except classify (rightly) some so-called controversial movies, either 18 or R18.
So, dark clouds may be on the horizon after all. Make the most of it, and to think that many folks STILL don't realise that R18s are proper hardcore videos! It could all be gone before they knew it was even there. Good night!
>
> if the rumours are true things could be about to get even
> less simple, not to say contentious.
>
> whispers at westminster have it that, after the tories get
> stuffed at the election, jack straw will be shuffled off to
> something more "important" like religious affairs and the new
> home secretary will be that new labour model of christian
> rectitude - david blunkett.
>
> the scenario being painted is that he will immediately push
> for new legislation outlawing everything currently permitted
> under r18 classification.
>
Erk!
I don't know about rumours, but looking at the White Paper referred to by the BBFC site, it is suggested that video classification be taken away from the BBFC (they oppose it). Instead it will be done by the govt. dept. OFCOM. This is clearly an attempt to undermine the BBFC liberalisation, after all they have done nothing contentious except classify (rightly) some so-called controversial movies, either 18 or R18.
So, dark clouds may be on the horizon after all. Make the most of it, and to think that many folks STILL don't realise that R18s are proper hardcore videos! It could all be gone before they knew it was even there. Good night!