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I hate to tell you David (well not really), I get the impression that you believe that everybody has right to everything. I only disagree slightly,eevrybody should have the right to everything they earn.

As history now unfolds, it becomes clear why 9/11 was MADE to happen. Three out of five Americans do not believe the crooked Bush Administration's version of why 9/11 occurred. Needless to say NONE of the Arab world believe the official version. Many in Europe are skeptical.

9/11 was perpetrated by persons unknown for the following reasons:

1/ To give the West an excuse to occupy the Middle East........permanently.

2/ To protect (And seize if necessary) the oil supplies in the Middle East, in the event of a mass Muslim uprising (As is happening now)

3/ To protect the State of Israel against it's hostile Arab neighbours.

4/ Maybe to prepare and to ensure victory, in what could possibly be, the biblical Final Conflict, between Muslim & Christian.



Osama Bin Laden was a patsy. A much better choice, certainly from an image point of view, would have been our own Abu Hansa, who I think you'd agree is far more scary:
[img]http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... -hamza.jpg[/img]

I am not stating that you are wrong and I am write.

I am stating that the evidence is not as conclusive as you appear to think and the subject is more complex than you appear to believe.

Hence the air of unquestioning acceptance about your arguments e.g.

"1st link is reporting about the gap between the richest and poorest. This isn't good, but it isn't saying the quality of life has deteriorated since the '60s.

There are links between the size of that gap and the levels of crime/feelings of well being, irrespective of the precise level of income of the poor.

"Link 4 goes into obesity. While a big problem this is more to do with people's habits and a chosen lifestyle.

Ok, so your argument here is that if things aren't better for people it is their fault.

Like I said you have obviously convinced yourself. I am not convinced either way.

Cheers
D

Thank you Jimbo for giving us this thought-provoking analysis.

Personally, I think 9/11 was caused by the position of the planets, namely Jupiter being in Uranus.

[quote]I am stating that the evidence is not as conclusive as you appear to think and the subject is more complex than you appear to believe.[/quote]

That's fine. For me, as you point out, the evidence IS conclusive. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water, though. I'm sure there are things about the '60s society we'd do well to try and ape today, but in general I do think things are better and those improvements, in some instances, have come about in opposition of the church.

[quote]Ok, so your argument here is that if things aren't better for people it is their fault.[/quote]

I think you know I wasn't arguing that. Obesity, though, IS a battle with yourself. Fighting a system that's inherently racist/sexist/homophobic from the bottom up is the worse of those evils. There's varying degrees of choice between victims when it comes to what you eat and how much. There was a little less choice available to a woman denied a certain job, or wage, due to her gender and a little less choice to a gay man explaining to a judge why he shouldn't be chemically castrated for sleeping with another man.

I think a lot of this debate is guesswork.

For example, I posed the question, Has this made Britain a better place to live?.

What I didn't do is define what I mean by "better". One person's "better can be entirely different from another person's "better". Even if you then agree on a definition of "better" it can be hard to prove the case one way or another.

For example, as you referenced, if cancer detection increases, does that mean more people are getting cancer or that we are much better now at detecting it? This would be quite difficult to prove one way or another, given that there was a tendency to just put down "natural causes" as the reason for death amongst old people, decades ago.

Cheers
D

The BBC may be many things, good and bad, but it is not and never has been 'UK State TV' as you call it.

It's a bit strange that the wimps won then.