>>
Not really.
They "earn" (note the inverted commas!) telephone-number weekly salaries with their clubs and from advertising deals, and they get win bonuses for major tournaments when they play for England - which to them is just an extra bit of pocket money.
Based on the way the clueless fuckers have blundered around the park in their last two games, I'd be all in favour of the system working in reverse as well, by which I mean if they play shite they pay a financial penalty - let's say a month's salary each paid into a fund to support grassroots football and struggling league clubs, and/or to reimburse those long-suffering loyal fans who've travelled thousands of miles to watch the cunts play.
Never happen of course, the bastards are far too greedy, selfish and up their own arses. But the prospect of being hit hard in the pocket would concentrate their tiny minds, I'm sure.
- Eric
England ..the reality
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
Think about what you're saying.
Every goal means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly (teams go out to not concede goals). While every 0-0 means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly, too (teams go out ultimately to score goals).
The failure isn't the management, or the players, but the whole set-up from the youth coaching level. We need to stop picking out the biggest, strongest kids and pick out the technically gifted ones who can actually trap a ball and know how to pass and move.
Ultimately we need to look at the FA.
Every goal means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly (teams go out to not concede goals). While every 0-0 means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly, too (teams go out ultimately to score goals).
The failure isn't the management, or the players, but the whole set-up from the youth coaching level. We need to stop picking out the biggest, strongest kids and pick out the technically gifted ones who can actually trap a ball and know how to pass and move.
Ultimately we need to look at the FA.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Roger Fukwit
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
As a matter of interest, what price did you get?
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Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
Sam Slater wrote:
> Think about what you're saying.
>
> Every goal means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly
> (teams go out to not concede goals). While every 0-0 means
> someone somewhere didn't do their job properly, too (teams go
> out ultimately to score goals).
>
> The failure isn't the management, or the players, but the whole
> set-up from the youth coaching level. We need to stop picking
> out the biggest, strongest kids and pick out the technically
> gifted ones who can actually trap a ball and know how to pass
> and move.
>
> Ultimately we need to look at the FA.
>
It's certainly true that the FA must carry the can to a certain degree.
In Holland there are no competitive leagues for football at, I believe, U14 level and below, whilst in England, a quick trip to the local park on Sunday will see parents screaming at 7 and 8 year olds to "get in there my son!" or hurling abuse at referees. The result is that Holland, with a far smaller population than England, can create players of the talent of Cruyff, Bergkamp, Sneijder and dozens and dozens more. Why? Because kids in Holland are allowed to learn technique long before they are taught to win, and let's face it, it's a lot easier to win when you know what you're doing! Unfortunately the "faceless blazers" at The FA tend to be bureaucrats rather than true footballing people (the odd Chairman of a club aside) and just like the Civil Service, on which it seems to be modeled, the people there do everything to keep the status quo, "because that's how it's always been done, old boy!"
Questions must also be asked of Capello. How has a team that looked as if it was starting to play without fear and qualified with relative ease turned into a group of players who have what I can only describe as the haunted features of men about to face a firing squad?
After the chaos of Steve McLaren, England needed a manager with discipline, but has Capello gone too far? I wholly agree with some of the things he introduced... a ban on mobile phones at certain times of the day and making the players all eat together like a "family" ought to help the players bond better and have a respect for each other (there's nothing respectful about answering a mobile during a meal, for instance). But at a tournament like a World Cup Finals, how are players meant to prepare for games if they only know minutes before getting on the coach to the stadium that they are playing?
The goalkeeping "crisis" is a good example of poor management by Capello. If Green was his first choice keeper, why give the No. 1 jersey to James? If James was not picked for the first game because of a possible injury, then why not say so? If, as Capello kept saying before the tournament, that players would be picked on form, why wasn't Hart picked for the first game? If none of the 'keepers knows where they stand how are they meant to prepare adequately for the games? What about practicing defending corners and free kicks, etc? Did each 'keeper get 1/3rd of the time set aside for these drills with what would be considered the first choice back four?
As for playing Gerrard on the left, he will always want to drift in. This means that Ashley Cole cannot make as many forward runs as usual for fear of leaving a huge hole behind him with no cover. It also means that Lampard's space is also taken up by Gerrard. In effect Gerrard on the left drifting in constantly loses the potential attacking ability of two other players and also creates a weak left side defensively. If Gerrard and Lampard are in central midfield, then they must be part of a central three (in a 4-3-3) with a more defensive minded player like Barry. They cannot play in the same way as they play for their clubs in a 4-4-2 whether it be both in the centre or one in the centre and the other on the left. If Capello insists on 4-4-2 then Gerrard playing off the striker (and Rooney looks as if a grueling season at Man U has done for him) is the only solution to keeping him and Lampard in the same team with a chance that both replicate club form.
However, no matter what formation had been played last night, there is a basic malaise within the players that resulted in passes going woefully astray and a total lack of imagination on the pitch from any of the 14 players who took part.
> Think about what you're saying.
>
> Every goal means someone somewhere didn't do their job properly
> (teams go out to not concede goals). While every 0-0 means
> someone somewhere didn't do their job properly, too (teams go
> out ultimately to score goals).
>
> The failure isn't the management, or the players, but the whole
> set-up from the youth coaching level. We need to stop picking
> out the biggest, strongest kids and pick out the technically
> gifted ones who can actually trap a ball and know how to pass
> and move.
>
> Ultimately we need to look at the FA.
>
It's certainly true that the FA must carry the can to a certain degree.
In Holland there are no competitive leagues for football at, I believe, U14 level and below, whilst in England, a quick trip to the local park on Sunday will see parents screaming at 7 and 8 year olds to "get in there my son!" or hurling abuse at referees. The result is that Holland, with a far smaller population than England, can create players of the talent of Cruyff, Bergkamp, Sneijder and dozens and dozens more. Why? Because kids in Holland are allowed to learn technique long before they are taught to win, and let's face it, it's a lot easier to win when you know what you're doing! Unfortunately the "faceless blazers" at The FA tend to be bureaucrats rather than true footballing people (the odd Chairman of a club aside) and just like the Civil Service, on which it seems to be modeled, the people there do everything to keep the status quo, "because that's how it's always been done, old boy!"
Questions must also be asked of Capello. How has a team that looked as if it was starting to play without fear and qualified with relative ease turned into a group of players who have what I can only describe as the haunted features of men about to face a firing squad?
After the chaos of Steve McLaren, England needed a manager with discipline, but has Capello gone too far? I wholly agree with some of the things he introduced... a ban on mobile phones at certain times of the day and making the players all eat together like a "family" ought to help the players bond better and have a respect for each other (there's nothing respectful about answering a mobile during a meal, for instance). But at a tournament like a World Cup Finals, how are players meant to prepare for games if they only know minutes before getting on the coach to the stadium that they are playing?
The goalkeeping "crisis" is a good example of poor management by Capello. If Green was his first choice keeper, why give the No. 1 jersey to James? If James was not picked for the first game because of a possible injury, then why not say so? If, as Capello kept saying before the tournament, that players would be picked on form, why wasn't Hart picked for the first game? If none of the 'keepers knows where they stand how are they meant to prepare adequately for the games? What about practicing defending corners and free kicks, etc? Did each 'keeper get 1/3rd of the time set aside for these drills with what would be considered the first choice back four?
As for playing Gerrard on the left, he will always want to drift in. This means that Ashley Cole cannot make as many forward runs as usual for fear of leaving a huge hole behind him with no cover. It also means that Lampard's space is also taken up by Gerrard. In effect Gerrard on the left drifting in constantly loses the potential attacking ability of two other players and also creates a weak left side defensively. If Gerrard and Lampard are in central midfield, then they must be part of a central three (in a 4-3-3) with a more defensive minded player like Barry. They cannot play in the same way as they play for their clubs in a 4-4-2 whether it be both in the centre or one in the centre and the other on the left. If Capello insists on 4-4-2 then Gerrard playing off the striker (and Rooney looks as if a grueling season at Man U has done for him) is the only solution to keeping him and Lampard in the same team with a chance that both replicate club form.
However, no matter what formation had been played last night, there is a basic malaise within the players that resulted in passes going woefully astray and a total lack of imagination on the pitch from any of the 14 players who took part.
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
Re: England ..the reality
I think half the problem with football in this country is due to kids playing more "virtual" football on their Play Stations,X-Boxes and the like. Maybe if they actually tried kicking a real ball now and again we would have more talent.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
I don't blame Capello. He's top class and proven, as was Eriksson....as was/is MccLaren, who's just gone on and won the Dutch league with a team like FC Twente. That's like winning the Premier League with Spurs, Villa or Everton.
I just don't think England have produces many world-class, technically gifted, as well as intelligent players for a long time. Rooney and Joe Cole are probably the only ones I can think of. And one looks a little unfit and frustrated by a team who can't give him the ball in areas where he wants it, while the other's sat on the bench.
The Gerrards and Lampards look good at club level because they're players who's games are more about finishing off moves. They're not creators or players who base their game linking up the play. At club level they have clever players from other nations that can do that. Once those players are taken away they're exposed for their weaknesses (an overall lack of footballing skill). The only English player that can link up play like a Xabi or Iniesta is Paul Scholes....but we hounded him into retirement a long time ago. Before him you have to go right back to Gascoigne and Platt. Not good enough for a nation of nearly 50 million.
I read somewhere that Spain overhauled their coaching system at youth level some 16 years ago. They now have over 750 grade-A UEFA coaches teaching kids from the ages of 5 and 6.
I just don't think England have produces many world-class, technically gifted, as well as intelligent players for a long time. Rooney and Joe Cole are probably the only ones I can think of. And one looks a little unfit and frustrated by a team who can't give him the ball in areas where he wants it, while the other's sat on the bench.
The Gerrards and Lampards look good at club level because they're players who's games are more about finishing off moves. They're not creators or players who base their game linking up the play. At club level they have clever players from other nations that can do that. Once those players are taken away they're exposed for their weaknesses (an overall lack of footballing skill). The only English player that can link up play like a Xabi or Iniesta is Paul Scholes....but we hounded him into retirement a long time ago. Before him you have to go right back to Gascoigne and Platt. Not good enough for a nation of nearly 50 million.
I read somewhere that Spain overhauled their coaching system at youth level some 16 years ago. They now have over 750 grade-A UEFA coaches teaching kids from the ages of 5 and 6.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
-
Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
Sam Slater wrote:
> I don't blame Capello. He's top class and proven, as was
> Eriksson....as was/is MccLaren, who's just gone on and won the
> Dutch league with a team like FC Twente. That's like winning
> the Premier League with Spurs, Villa or Everton.
Just because someone is good at club level doesn't mean they'll be good at international level... and vice versa.
I do blame Capello to a certain extent because when he could see thing's weren't happening on the pitch he, like McLaren and S-GE before him, didn't have the wit to change the system. Bobby Robson did change the system in 1990. Glen Hoddle and Terry Venables were also coaches who had a "Plan B" Unfortunately Capello seems only to have a Plan A, and because of his success in the past, Mr Capello thinks Mr Capello is always right.
4-4-2 with Gerrard on the left wasn't working, so instead SW-P came on for Lennon (right winger for right winger), then Defoe came on for Heskey (striker for striker). As a final, desperate, act we got Crouch on for Barry with just a few minutes to go... but we still had an unbalanced team on the pitch with Gerrard meant to be on the left but actually everywhere BUT the left, leaving only Ashley Cole on that side of the pitch.
I also blame Capello for the goalkeeping crisis. For months he's been saying that he knew who he was going to start with in goal. Either he was lying or he knew who he wanted to start with, but wanted to hedge his bets just in case... the result is 3 'keepers (a position that is vital to have a recognised No 1) not knowing who will play until 2 hours before kick off.
The Germans, who are as bereft as England in terms of truly world class 'keepers, have at least said to Neuer, you're our number one 'keeper for years to come. He may not be the best in the world, but they've recognised a good young keeper who they intend to stick with come hell or high water. That gives him the sort of confidence that means he shouldn't go into games thinking "if I make a mistake I'll be dropped" EVERY player makes a mistake at some point... with 'keepers it's often more costly than an outfield player... but some of those mistakes come from self-induced nerves caused by being desperate NOT to make a mistake!
Capello made a HUGE mistake by not saying ages ago, so-and-so is my first choice keeper.
>
> I just don't think England have produces many world-class,
> technically gifted, as well as intelligent players for a long
> time. Rooney and Joe Cole are probably the only ones I can
> think of. And one looks a little unfit and frustrated by a team
> who can't give him the ball in areas where he wants it, while
> the other's sat on the bench.
>
> The Gerrards and Lampards look good at club level because
> they're players who's games are more about finishing off moves.
> They're not creators or players who base their game linking up
> the play. At club level they have clever players from other
> nations that can do that. Once those players are taken away
> they're exposed for their weaknesses (an overall lack of
> footballing skill). The only English player that can link up
> play like a Xabi or Iniesta is Paul Scholes....but we hounded
> him into retirement a long time ago. Before him you have to go
> right back to Gascoigne and Platt. Not good enough for a nation
> of nearly 50 million.
Spot on. Rooney and Cole are rare English players who can create at the very highest levels.
>
> I read somewhere that Spain overhauled their coaching system at
> youth level some 16 years ago. They now have over 750 grade-A
> UEFA coaches teaching kids from the ages of 5 and 6.
>
It seems most other national associations are more forward thinking and innovative than The FA
> I don't blame Capello. He's top class and proven, as was
> Eriksson....as was/is MccLaren, who's just gone on and won the
> Dutch league with a team like FC Twente. That's like winning
> the Premier League with Spurs, Villa or Everton.
Just because someone is good at club level doesn't mean they'll be good at international level... and vice versa.
I do blame Capello to a certain extent because when he could see thing's weren't happening on the pitch he, like McLaren and S-GE before him, didn't have the wit to change the system. Bobby Robson did change the system in 1990. Glen Hoddle and Terry Venables were also coaches who had a "Plan B" Unfortunately Capello seems only to have a Plan A, and because of his success in the past, Mr Capello thinks Mr Capello is always right.
4-4-2 with Gerrard on the left wasn't working, so instead SW-P came on for Lennon (right winger for right winger), then Defoe came on for Heskey (striker for striker). As a final, desperate, act we got Crouch on for Barry with just a few minutes to go... but we still had an unbalanced team on the pitch with Gerrard meant to be on the left but actually everywhere BUT the left, leaving only Ashley Cole on that side of the pitch.
I also blame Capello for the goalkeeping crisis. For months he's been saying that he knew who he was going to start with in goal. Either he was lying or he knew who he wanted to start with, but wanted to hedge his bets just in case... the result is 3 'keepers (a position that is vital to have a recognised No 1) not knowing who will play until 2 hours before kick off.
The Germans, who are as bereft as England in terms of truly world class 'keepers, have at least said to Neuer, you're our number one 'keeper for years to come. He may not be the best in the world, but they've recognised a good young keeper who they intend to stick with come hell or high water. That gives him the sort of confidence that means he shouldn't go into games thinking "if I make a mistake I'll be dropped" EVERY player makes a mistake at some point... with 'keepers it's often more costly than an outfield player... but some of those mistakes come from self-induced nerves caused by being desperate NOT to make a mistake!
Capello made a HUGE mistake by not saying ages ago, so-and-so is my first choice keeper.
>
> I just don't think England have produces many world-class,
> technically gifted, as well as intelligent players for a long
> time. Rooney and Joe Cole are probably the only ones I can
> think of. And one looks a little unfit and frustrated by a team
> who can't give him the ball in areas where he wants it, while
> the other's sat on the bench.
>
> The Gerrards and Lampards look good at club level because
> they're players who's games are more about finishing off moves.
> They're not creators or players who base their game linking up
> the play. At club level they have clever players from other
> nations that can do that. Once those players are taken away
> they're exposed for their weaknesses (an overall lack of
> footballing skill). The only English player that can link up
> play like a Xabi or Iniesta is Paul Scholes....but we hounded
> him into retirement a long time ago. Before him you have to go
> right back to Gascoigne and Platt. Not good enough for a nation
> of nearly 50 million.
Spot on. Rooney and Cole are rare English players who can create at the very highest levels.
>
> I read somewhere that Spain overhauled their coaching system at
> youth level some 16 years ago. They now have over 750 grade-A
> UEFA coaches teaching kids from the ages of 5 and 6.
>
It seems most other national associations are more forward thinking and innovative than The FA
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
-
mrmcfister
- Posts: 1672
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: England ..the reality
Bump...I'm getting nervous already...