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Reggie, what is 'white culture' then? I've never seen myself as 'white' as such - just an individual. I've never seen people who would be described as 'black' in some census that took place, as being 'black' as such - just people. When people like Jamie Foxx point out that it is MORE than just skin deep, then it may encourage other people to think it is too. And that is not a good thing.

one eyed jack, I may have posted a few threads on here about race over recent months but it is largely to get debates going on what I think is an interesting subject. I've never said anything damning, just things to get a debate going, and questioned inconsistencies in things when I see them. I do hold the view that many people in the USA, who are black, really do see that as an identity, and not just a skin-deep thing, yet bizarelly those people would cry 'racist, racist' if someone saw them as being of colour, and if the person in question prefered people of THEIR own colour or creed.

Do you remember that British girlband 'Eternal' who were big in the 1990's? One white girl and three black girls (the white chick, Louise, is now married to Jamie Rednapp). I remember her saying they would go on black radio stations in America and no one would talk to her. The other 3 were greeted, handshakes and everything (Louise was ignored), then during the interview live on the radio, she was totally ignored and all they would do is talk to the other three. This is pure racism. She was blanked for one reason nd one reason only - because she was white.

I think a lot of people in the USA really think along similar lines to Jamie Foxx. Him being black is not just an external, visual thing. It is his identity. The more that people like him go on like he does, the more it will make people who dont see distinctions between people in terms of colour actually start seeing distinctions. I think he shot himself in the foot with what he said - knowing full well it would be widely broadcast. I've known many people over the years who have been furious over the existance of The Voice newspaper, for example . The angle they always come from is "could you imagine the outcry if there was a whites-only newspaper?" These inconsistencies don't help...

one eyed jack, I agree that the paedo thing was an allegation and he didn't get convicted of it. Interesting you mention about how it is mainly white people who were keen to see him as being guilty. I'm not sure what I think about that - he had so many white fans. Before him the only black entertainers who had been huge were Jimi Hendrix and Sammy Davis - and Sammy Davis experienced racism like you wouldnt believe. He wasn't even allowed to get changed in the hotels he was performing in, he had to get changed in a caravan out back and he couldn't even eat in the hotel restaurants - even though he was the star that night and the only reason the hotel was packed and making lots of money in the bars and restaurants there was because of HIM! Frank Sinatra was so appaled that he made sure Sammy was treated equally. Michael Jackson never had to endure any of that, he was treated with respect like any white entertainer would have been. In the 1980's Ronald Reagan even gave him an award and called him 'a true American'.

one eyed jack, I remember the Jordy Chandler episode. The pay off was enourmous and many freeloading members of Chandler's wider family bought themselves nice houses and nice cars. To do that is to almost endorse the bad that was allegedly done to Chandler. His relatives were apparently really appaled, even though the boys mother let him stay the night in Jackson's house. For his relatives to get rich off of this is disgraceful. Had the Court case gone all the way it is difficult to know whether Jackson would have been found guilty. Even if he had been it doesn't necessarily mean he did it - these "it's your word against his" type Court cases are quite unpredictable in how they will turn out and often the result isn't a fair one.

max_tranmere wrote:

> .....Michael Jackson never had to endure any of
> that, he was treated with respect like any white entertainer
> would have been. In the 1980's Ronald Reagan even gave him an
> award and called him 'a true American'.

True, MJ probably had it somewhat better than previous black entertainers, but throughout the seventies he'd have been part of an American music scene that had long seperated black music from white via radio stations, tv, press and the like.

Come the eighties and the emergent, predominently white MTV - who ended up doing rather well out of MJ - wouldn't even play his videos. They only changed their tune when his record company threatened to withdraw all their other acts videos from MTVs roster. The resulting exposure played a very large part in Jackson's crossover appeal - a factor also present in his material (Beat It, say), which fused both black and white pop sensibilites. So he deserves a tip of the hat for opening that door at least.

I thought the worst thing Foxx said at that event was in poking fun at Jacko's old nose and new nose within the context of publicly grieving. It seemed pretty tasteless coming from a guy who claimed to be in awe of him.

Max thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

The Voice newspapaer is exactly what it says in the title, voicing the concerns and issues of the black community that grand old papers of yore lie The Sun and Daily mail dont consider news...fair enough. it probably isnt to white people but blacks dont resent that, because they have their own newspaper. End of problem.

Swampthing, normally you say things i am ok with. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. i stick by what i said and dont see slavery as some kind of rescue as you perceive it.

My answer to your question however would be that those same said americans will prefer america simply because it is all they know now

but then, what is an american? the white people american supposedly belongs to are not the indigenous people of that country.

America is a hybrid mix of a variety of nations coming into the mix which is why it is seen as the new world where blacks, whites, jews and everyone who live in it now should be equal.

The way i see it if anyone enforces their position over others to become the main power of that country (black white or whatever) they should expect that every now and again that power is going to be challenged in a variety of ways.

Its not all black on white there. its black on black and white on white too and everything in between. same goes here in this country.

Not all races are hung up on the colour issue at all. i dont assume every white man hates balcks because they are not black and vice versa. that way leads to madness.