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OK, so you're now starting to move the goalposts - 7/10 for effort, but still null pointes otherwise. For our younger readers who don't know what the Fawlty Towers walk is, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COcbHCAe ... y%20towers

So that's what you saw?Yeah, sure. Of course you now admit he could not have known Fawlty Towers, but you chose this as the closest example. In reality, one arm in the air, one on on the hip could be any player of any country celebrating a sweet win. Plenty commentators at the time (mostly anti-German) called it a strut or "Jagger swagger", but no one thought it was a Hitler salute. And the "goosestepping"? Just plain laughable, not a deliberate Nazi provocation.

Pity the clip is not out there on the net, it's not on Youtube or Google Video (at least I can't find it). The whole thing is interpretation, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Just becuase you can add a "Sieg Heil" caption to pictures of Thatcher, Scargill, Blair or a traffic policeman where they're holding their arm up to make them look as if they're giving a Nazi salute, it doesn't mean they are. Sometimes though, people are doing it deliberately, for instance here's that real Hitler salute from Paolo di Cante:

[img]http://fr.altermedia.info/images/dicanio.jpg[/img]

Otherwise, I take no quarrel with your main point about FIFA cracking down on the English squad. And I hope you're right about Trinidad.

Marty - you're right. 2:0 - what a relief. They took their time, though.

300 arrested in clashes between German and Polish thugs. Made page 20 in the East Cheam Chronicle. If 300 England fans were lifted we would be out of the World Cup, Euro 2008 and the Olympics in China. Our fans are saints compared to Feyenoord, Schalke etc and the Moscow team's fans are truly loopy.

Germany vs Poland to me is always a rather poignant situation. There's something quite intriguing about it for me...just the idea of their history, then playing football.....i guess you could say that about any countries though i suppose. just feel a bit sorry for poland - germans still look like right evil bastards dont they....woops.

Like I said, English fans are treated much more harshly for their actions than anyone else in the world. The players too.

I seriously think fifa & ueafa want Bitish teams out of tournaments as soon as possible. I see it in reffereeing decisions and fifa's biased opinions all the time.

It's like eurovision, all about politics....

You could see all that you have to say coming a mile off- English fans making Nazi salutes at the Nuremberg forum, for example.

Let me add another point. Where I live- and no doubt where you live too- I can see England flags on houses and cars...businesses and even lamp standards. Unlike the Premiership, the World Cup is in EVERY pub live every night and EVERY pub has a flag....

What happens when we get knocked out?- and we will at one point. I can see it kicking off not just in Germany- but in every town centre and in some suburbs too. A lot of people are using the soccer to deny/hide from their own pain - what happens on a warm night if they fall out of a pub having had too much to drink.

I'm expecting a night of mayhem in the next fortnight- let's see if I am right; though dear God, I hope I am wrong!

Correct! Sometimes certain people use any excuse to release any built up anger they have. This happens in every european country (to different extents) not just England. We just here more about the english fans because while europe points the finger at us, it takes attension away from their own failings within the beautiful game!

I've been saying this all along and my point was proved with the 300 arrests from clashes between German v Polish supporters. Hardly heard anything of it really. A few column inches on a few web sites and a brief showing on Sky News's 'ticker tape'.

If it had been 300 arrests from an england clash, we'd have hours of it on Sky News, it would hit the front pages of the UK's tabloids, it would feature on the BBc/ITV news, It would be all over Fifa website's front page, we'd have video footage from numerous camera angles, interviews from German cheifs of police, and Seb Blatter would be goin mental!

On top of that, England would probably be facing either bans again. I can't see Seb Blatter & Franz Beckenbauer campaigning a German/Polish ban from future competitions!

Hell would freeze over first!

I saw a programme the other week about football hooligans and the media's picture of english fans. They showed the usual footage of pissed up fat yobs and riot police wading in etc. They then interviewed an old hooligan "top boy" or whatever they're called and he said the ones you see arrested and getting battered by the cops are just the drunken sing-a-long supporters you get anywhere and not necessarily the people who probably caused the trouble in the first place. He said the hooligans who go for a scrap are usually sober and know exactly what they're doing and how to avoid detection. Its like military planning - go in, do the business, get out when the cops wade in and watch the pissheads get a beating and arrested. He said the coppers in Britain genuinely don't know most of the people they arrest for football hooliganism abroad as they're just lads pissed up who've been caught in the middle of it. They end up kicking off because theyve had a trunction round the back of their necks. Most ofthe real hooligans are known to the police and the mobs they run with.

However I do agree with the first post, making nazi salutes and whatever is just plain boring and so obviously offensive to German people. Go to Germany and support your team by all means. Enjoy the hospitality but show em respect to, after all its in their backyard.