which political party is more liberal?

A place to socialise and share opinions with other members of the BGAFD Community.
Officer Dibble
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Way off topic by now

Post by Officer Dibble »

"Answer to the original question: I don't know. But there are likely to be more restrictions on adult material if the Tories get in."

Bizarrely, neither you, nor anyone else, have answered the original question satisfactorily. So I will. The most porn-friendly party is likely to be the LibDems; indeed they have already debated the issue at past conferences - proposing even less restrictions and a lowering of the notional age of access to 16.


Officer Dibble
Pervert
Posts: 10396
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Liberal views

Post by Pervert »

Boom and bust economics may have created and destroyed fortunes, but it wasn't good for the country.

The things you rail about most often---and believe me, I'm in agreement with some of what you say about people, though not the pro-Tory survival of the wealthiest stuff---is a manifestation of what most parties say they support: people's right to choose. They choose a lifestyle, a haircut, a mode of dress and behaviour, to watch certain TV, to have bits of metal pushed into parts of their bodies, to have tasteless tattoos etched on their bodies, to drink cheap cider and play awful music at hugh volume, to give their children dreadful names they think are "classy," etc etc.

Is it the fact that they have the right to choose that bothers you, or their perceived lack of taste? You can look back to any time in history and see it as a golden age, if you only concentrate on the positives. In the eighties, people spent a lot of time berating the seventies as the decade taste forgot. Not so many folk believe that now.

As for people dressing better in the eighties, now you are having a laugh. Whole regiments of guys in fleck suits with bum fluff moustaches in the early years, moving through to the mullet years.
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Officer Dibble
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Liberal views

Post by Officer Dibble »

"Boom and bust economics may have created and destroyed fortunes, but it wasn't good for the country."

How do you mean, 'it wasn't good for the country'? Weren?t we as a nation a whole lot richer by the end of the 80's than we were when it started? Also, the unprecedented dynamism of the economy in that period gave those from a working class background, who were skint (but had more than half a brain), plenty of chances to make serious dough in a comparatively short space of time, without having to have the middleclass and upper-class benefits of collateral, equity, and connections within the business community. There was no need to be skint anymore; there was a way out of poverty and drudgery. The smarter and more committed you were, the father you could go. Wealth and success were no longer a closed shop, no longer an exclusive club.

I too support the right to choose. Yes, folks should be able to live how they like - so long and they are not treading on anyone else's toes, or costing anyone else money. Take yer chavs for example - they can have as many chavy bairns as they like ? and yes, with crap names like Jordan and Brittney. But they cannot expect me or anyone else to pay for them. If you cannot afford something you, cannot have it. If this simple principle that holds true in most other areas of life were extended to children half the country?s social problems (and the ensuing cost to Joe taxpayer) would disappear at a stroke.

Also, although chavs and the like might choose to play their crap music loud, burgle houses, steal from cars, assault strangers at random and for no reason, the rest of us, who are not chavs, have a right not to put up with it. But if chavs want to keep it amongst themselves, and fuck each other over, I don't mind at all. In fact it would rather put a spring in my step.


"Is it the fact that they have the right to choose that bothers you, or their perceived lack of taste"

As I said, I support their right to chose. But their lack of taste does get right up my nose. And it should get up your nose too - you're a cultured chap. Doesn?t it piss you off when you go down to the video store, hoping to rent a decent film, to be confronted with shelves full of Jackie Chan, teen slasher movies, gross American teen comedies, action films starring Nicholas Cage - with loads of explosions, gunfire, crap jokes, but no blood, tension, or coherent plot? Similarly, when you go the music store, switch on your TV, or buy a magazine. Popular culture used to be real culture, forged by artists. Now popular culture is forged by accounts and PR men from the most banal (uncontroversial) material and is aimed squarely at the lowest common denominators (chavs). If you value your Godfather?s, China Town's, Apocalypse Now's, Blade Runners, Goodfellas, etc. If you value your led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, etc you should speak out, now.

But even if you don't care about culture, what about respect and attitude? Was there chaos and insurrection in the classroom when you were a lad? Would you have countenanced going up to you teacher and shouting, "Fuck off yer wanker!" in his or her face? Would you have 'decked' the nurse would was tending your wounds in casualty on a Saturday evening or chinned a doctor? Would your sister have felt so socially unconstrained and gotten herself so inebriated that she was picked up by the old bill shrieking and rolling round in a pool of vomit, in the street, on a Friday night, bringing disgrace on the family? Should we indulge this behaviour because individuals have a right to choose? Should those at the sharp end have to put up with the associated cost, heartache and aggravation? If not, don't the rest of us who still have standards and taste have a duty to say, stop! This is not on? Don't we have a duty to slag crap taste, crap standards, and crap behaviour off, before, like some horrible contagious disease, it engulfs all we hold dear?



Officer Dibble
Dickie Davies
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by Dickie Davies »

"Well, I'm voting Labour.

Lots of reasons - health, education, law & order"

Maybe those are reasons you should not be voting Labour? What about MRSA, A-levels that aren't worth the paper they are written on and city centres that wouldn?t disgrace Dodge City on a Saturday evening?"


I voting Labour because I hated the annual Winter crisis in the health service under the Tories - I hated the constant Tory underfunding of health, education and other public services and I hated the "always put the interests of the rich few first" attitude of the Tories.

The Tories take us for mugs homing in on MRSA as the big problem in the Health service - it is being comprehensively tackled and he Tories have been caught out distorting the figures in their campaign material. Lets not forget, if we had had a Tory Government since 1997, we would not ave een the biggest hospital building programme since the War, huge advances in cutting waiting times etc, etc.

A Levels - stop reading the Daily Mail. Standards in schools are going up - results are improving across the board. Only he right wing want to denigrate the achievements of young people.

City Centres - so the Tories are going to change that, are they? Labour is taking tough and sometimes unpopular action on law and order. Flexible licences will help here too.

At the end of the day, you have your views, Officer Dibble, and I have mine -as I said, I'm voting Labour and I'm proud to do so.

Are you proud of the Tory campaign?
Pervert
Posts: 10396
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: Liberal views

Post by Pervert »

There was some insurrection in the classroom when I was at school, certainly, and that depended on who the teacher was. As I've said before, Chavs have always existed under different names.

When I was growing up, people of the age I am now were probably wringing their hands at the fact that young people no longer respected the police, didn't listen to Radio 3, and no longer dressed smartly. I can look at the generation in their late teens and early 20s now and find fault with their lifestyle and various choices, but it'd be hypocritical of me to voice my opposition when I resented being told what to do when I was their age.

As for crime and benefit sponging, well that's wrong whoever is involved.

Maybe there aren't great fortunes to be made in our economy at the moment, but we've so far managed to avoid major downturns and recessions that have hit other western nations. Will the economy implode/explode? Probably. But at the moment, it's the best thing we've got going for us.

Don't unleash my inner Nazi, Officer. If he had his way, I'd probably have the entire country to myself :-)
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Officer Dibble
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by Officer Dibble »

"I voting Labour because I hated the annual Winter crisis in the health service under the Tories"

What winter crisis? I was never aware of it and I keep my ear the political ground. It can't have been much of a big deal. Please expand on how this 'winter crisis' affected you personally.


"The Tories take us for mugs homing in on MRSA as the big problem in the Health service"

I don't believe that even Labour is denying there is an MRSA problem at the moment. It seems to be generally accepted that there is a problem in this area. But if MRSA is not the big problem, then pray, what is?


"f we had had a Tory Government since 1997, we would not ave een the biggest hospital building programme since the War, huge advances in cutting waiting times etc, etc."

OK. I'll grant you that. But it is suggested in many quarters that the diminution of waiting lists is not as great as it aught to be given the amount of dough that has been pumped in. A lot of money is wasted on bureaucracy and 'jobs for the boys.' Labour has an ideological tendency to treat public sector employers as another extension of the social services - giving jobs to those who are maybe not up to working for proper firms, where if individuals do not perform and keep up there is a danger of the company going bust.


"A Levels - stop reading the Daily Mail. Standards in schools are going up - results are improving across the board. Only he right wing want to denigrate the achievements of young people."

Total cobblers! We have discussed this a number of times here before and we have had contributions from actual university lecturers, professors, and those involved in marking exams. We've had it from those horses mouth - A levels are easy peasy now. So easy in fact that many employers totally disregard them and set their own entrance exams. This is simply part of Labours (as they see it) egalitarian (but misguided) policy of 'prizes for all'. They don't want anyone to feel like a dunce and a loser. Which is very nice of them and all that, but simply handing out fancy bits of paper does not tackle the underling issue - the problem that some people are inherently not as bright as others. It's just papering over the cracks.


"City Centres - so the Tories are going to change that, are they? Labour is taking tough and sometimes unpopular action on law and order. Flexible licences will help here too."

I don't know whether the Tories would make all that much difference - but at least there would be more of a willing to take action - to metaphorically, if not physically, put the boot into lairy idiots. I don't know about flexible licences. At the end of the day, this is not a problem about the availability of alcohol - the continentals have hardly any restrictions in that area but manage to conduct themselves with responsibility, civility and decorum. No, the problem is a deeper social one ? in Britain the under thirties do not nowadays feel socially constrained to adhere to certain standards of behaviour. They have been indulged by middleclass lefties and now they have no inhibitions about conducting themselves in a lairy, boorish, moronic manner, and of late no one has seriously pointed the finger at them and told them they are acting like cunts. Not only that, but the British tabloid press and 'yoof meeja' have actively encouraged all this shit. It's not an opening hours problem, it's a people problem.


"At the end of the day, you have your views, Officer Dibble, and I have mine -as I said, I'm voting Labour and I'm proud to do so."

But I sense your faith has been shaken a little.


"Are you proud of the Tory campaign?"

You seem to think I'm a Tory. I am not. You obviously haven?t followed the subtle nuances of my scribblings. Yes, I have voted Tory in the past, but then again, I have also voted Labour. There are parts of Tory ideology that I dig - the free market, putting the boot into idiots, scumbags and wasters (including those in the third world). I also see a need for public institutions funded out of taxation, and when it comes to social policy I don't mind gays marrying, smoking dope, having S&M parties and I would allow porno?s to be sold at your corner shop (though nowadays I might question the taste of any buyers). So, a good helping of Liberalism there. Problem is there isn't a political party that encompasses all these sensible sorts of polices. All the main parties are dogmatic wankers, intent on maintaining their cushy jobs and perks rather than engaging with difficult issues. So, t?fuck with 'em.



Officer Dibble - Breaking The Mould
alec
Posts: 9866
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by alec »

Officer Dibble wrote:

>
> "A Levels - stop reading the Daily Mail. Standards in schools
> are going up - results are improving across the board. Only he
> right wing want to denigrate the achievements of young people."
>
> Total cobblers! We have discussed this a number of times here
> before and we have had contributions from actual university
> lecturers, professors, and those involved in marking exams.
> We've had it from those horses mouth - A levels are easy peasy
> now. So easy in fact that many employers totally disregard them
> and set their own entrance exams. This is simply part of
> Labours (as they see it) egalitarian (but misguided) policy of
> 'prizes for all'.

Actually grade inflation began under the Tories in the mid-80s with the introduction of GCSE. This is when the system of grading changed from 'norm referencing' when a set percentage of candidates got a particular grade, to 'criterion referencing' where if you got the mark you got the grade. A levels followed a few years later in adopting this system. Norm referencing automatically prevented grade inflation. Don't blame the politicians here so much as the educationists who conned Tory ministers just as much as Labour ones.

All this comparison of exam results from year to year is what motivates politicians of whatever party to put on subtle pressure to encourage grade inflation.

In addition the Tories also encouraged exam boards to compete with each other commercially. Along with league tables, this provides an incentive to exam boards to make their papers easier and to schools to choose the exam boards which are perceived to be easiest to pass.

The whole question should be taken out of party politics by having just one not-for-profit exam board and returning to norm referencing (which the Tories have suggested to give them credit). Then there would be no point in comparing pass rates from year to year.

I agree that it defies logic and common sense that today's 18-year-olds appear to be ten times better (or whatever the figure is) academically than those of twenty years ago, even if teaching has improved a little overall, which is questionable.
nachovx
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by nachovx »

The Health Service in the UK is a disgrace and would be under any government. Compare the resources available against countries like Austria, Denmark and Sweden and we offer a pathetic alternative, there is no winter crisis, just a 365 day a year one.

Both parties take us for mugs - I'm English, but I'd rather vote Scottish National Party.

A Levels standards are low - compare any paper from the 70's/80's with one from today and the difference is amazing. The majority of 21 year olds out of the university and with a science degree don't understand pretty basic mathematics either, because a lot of what they were taught at school under the national curriculum is just rubbish and too abstract. I have had to work with new graduates and they are just not prepared for anything in the real world.

City Centres - tasering the chavs and yobs is the answer. The police here could learn a bit from the Dutch ME (Mobiele Eenheid) - they don't pussy foot about and if a yob need a good beating with a truncheon, they get it. Also the police need to carry guns as a deterrent and for protection.

Don't vote for any of them until they
Officer Dibble
Posts: 2372
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by Officer Dibble »

"The whole question should be taken out of party politics by having just one not-for-profit exam board and returning to norm referencing (which the Tories have suggested to give them credit). Then there would be no point in comparing pass rates from year to year."

Hmm, sounds like a sensible plan. But I would also stipulate that the proposed exam board be 'examined' - just to make sure that are totally independent, dispassionate, not swayed by any particular political ideology, and have at heart the integrity and reputation of British educational qualifications.



Officer Dibble
TheProf
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am

Re: which political party is more liberal?

Post by TheProf »

Oh!Dear...Im in the doghouse with a friend (84)staunch Tory although 'loves' Tony...frankly me,sod em!..

But I mentioned his leader being called the 'Prince of Darkness',how dare I say that...I thought the media did...

Bang,down went the phone at his end.Is this perhaps 25-years of friendship down the pan brought to an end through politicians.

It's how wars are caused.
Locked