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So how would you defend yourself against people who say all pornography is degrading to women? That it encourages men to treat women as lumps of meat instead of human beings?

Can't all the same arguments be applied? It just depends how prudish you are and your own personal tastes doesn't it. Some people believe all porn is disgusting, degrading and offensive to women. Others believe that porn is ok but porn that features rough sex is disgusting.

I tend to believe that what goes on between two consenting adults is no-ones buisness but theirs.

Alex wrote:

>> Nah this is the mary whitehouse philosophy. If you see Pulp
> Fiction you go out and start shooting people. It's bollocks and
> always has been. Watching a porno dvd isn't going to turn you
> into a rapist.
>
> Rape has been around a lot longer than porno dvds.

PULP FICTION is a movie, telling a story, in which stunt men are used and no-one actually gets killed (fantasy as opposed to reality).

Porno movies, in which the females get hurt is a reality (you only have to look at the bruises on Kelly Stafford's tits after Rocco was done whacking her with his belt buckle). Nothing faked there . . .

The more you push the envelope, of violence in pornography, the more extreme things will become (Snuff porno anyone?).

Look at the trends in 'happy slapping'. Kids are now trying to outdo each other in the beatings they mete out to other kids.

I'm no prude, Alex, but I know where to draw the line.

Alex wrote:

> I tend to believe that what goes on between two consenting
> adults is no-ones buisness but theirs.


And don't forget the viewer playing with himself as the male inflicts some more pain on the female . . .

Despite what we (as paying customers) say, the business isn't driven by us. It is driven by filmakes/producers/studios. Unfortunatley, as the Adult filmmarket begins (& often ends) with low-budget Hi8-type 'films' the average quality of what we watch is very low. So by the time the true 'Pro's' get to making films for us, they've not got much to beat. Many of these folks are no more professional than you or I but have managed to arrange funding, equipment & a good few contacts - which suddenly makes them filmmakers. And what the y want to film is what we have to watch.

What I'm getting at is that many so-called professionals in this business demand scenes of a style & nature that suits them. Each tries to out-do another by producing filthier, nastier porn. And with plenty of girls willing to be be professional too (?150 to get spat at, done up the arse etc!), we are patsies to the system. Storylines, sets & scripts are almost irrelevent in this business & sadly it seems, producers are only keen to become 'respected' by producing stuff that out-does someone else. In so doing, they make a name for themselves & earn 'respect' within the industry.

I fully expect a barrage of abuse for this thread but I'm simply using the opportunity to put my own point across. So I'll leave you with one example, (super) Mario/Marino has been in this business a long time. He's a good bloke too & worthy of his status. But...When he started, do you really think he had a desire to piss all over pretty girls? I can't imagine Ms Leigh was too keen at the idea either. Porn has changed & it's a shame that nasty, rough, degrading, is the the fodder we are being fed.

in reply to your post Alex i feel your rather missing the point, porn was originally made for our voyeuristic and exhibitionist natures, to be able to see inside the bedroom of the couple next door banging each other silly. not so we could explore the inner psychopath
if a couple engage in a rough sex scene why do you automatically assume its a rape scene? is that how you see all rough sex? there are plenty of disgusting movies where the set up is made to look like the girls getting Raped or abused, especially the young teen stuff where it basically implies paedophilia by deliberately using an extremely old stud like dick nasty and dressing the girl up like a 12 year old for example. this is inexcusable in my eye's as it condones it. but when you get two horny people together who like it rough you usually hear the lady screaming for more "fuck me harder, pull my hair, bite my shoulders, slap my arse, spank me harder " (yes that's about as rough as it gets for me i'm afraid) not oh please no don't do this, your hurting me shite. I have never thought of porn as anything but the worship of the female form and sexuality but then i did grow up on a staple diet of 70's and 80's porn in which woman were never portrayed as bits of meat. i mean for goodness sakes did you ever hear of Chav Porn then? no it was good looking girls in classy undies getting there rocks off how and when they liked (original girl power)
in some ways women have involuntarily contributed to this whole stream of abusive tripe by becoming the stronger sex. men in general are threatened by strong woman who know what they want and when they want it and take it without apologies. that whole cliche of yeah good for a fuck but wouldn't take her home to meet the mother! why not? what are you scared of? in my opinion most abusive porn is made by men who have sometime or other felt inferior to woman. be it their mothers or past lovers. i know lets put them back in their places by abusing them on film.
yes it is really hard to control us now and after all, all this is about is control. we earn our own money, buy our own house's, put our needs finally before that of an insecure male (apologies to the 1% of men out there who are really different and not just saying it to get into our panties.) in essence we don't need men we just want them and lets be honest, this scares the shit out of most of you.
sorry to go on but you've got me on my soapbox now and for those who are saying hang on she likes being spanked, isn't that abuse? I like the tingle and the warm feeling that spreads down between my legs after a good spank session, nothing more nothing less. my father never slapped me as a child he just bored us to tears with the rights and wrongs of our actions if we played up so it doesn't stem from that and actually we preferred it if mum came with the slipper. it lasted a second instead of 3 hours of morality lectures.
one thing i agree with is each to their own as long as it's consensual, legal, and doesn't involve brutalising a person just to get one up on them in some sort of emotional power struggle.
and breathe!!!
luv n hugs to all
Karina
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Karina

If it's any consolation, the majority of responses I've seen to this thread have shown an abhorrence to violent pornography (in which the female is on the receiving end).

Sex is a pleasurable act . . . even the watching of it . . . whereas violence is totally at odds with that concept. To my mind, pleasure and violence DO NOT go hand-in-hand . . . and I shudder to think what kind of low-lifes get pleasure in seeing someone else have pain inflicted upon them?

I don't think violence in sex is too far removed from paedophilia . . . but then again, perhaps Alex has his own justification for that . . ?

I whole heartedly agree with you on your points. But one thing though I think both sexes can say they don't need each other, they just want the sex and they're outta there. I do agee the insecure male would have a problem with a strong woman to which I 've NEVER had a problem with as it made my decisions a lot easier to make. At least I got to say no or yes. Blame it all on mom for making me cook and clean for myself. If all two people wanted was sex, at least the feeling was mutual and no strings were attached.

I agree, but I think you might be making a mistake by saying we condone it. I think to see it on TV is one thing, but when we hear about it in the news it SHOULD make you sick because fantasy rape might be a turn on for somebody, but IF they're in their right mind they wouldn't wish that on their worse girlfriend. I myself seen pics and vid clips of rape scenes but you'll never ever catch ME raping any woman because I've never wanted it THAT bad!