Re: Euro 2008
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:18 am
Flat_Eric wrote:
> I still say that their record over the years flatters them
> greatly and that they're the luckiest team of all time. I mean
> - four tournament final appearances on the back of penalty
> shootouts ('82 / '86 / '90 / '96) and one blatant match fix
> that FIFA lacked the balls to do anything about ('82).
Well, in '86 the penaly shootout was in the quarterfinals, and within altogether 13 reached finals by Germany it's not too surprising that 4 had a penalty shoot-out somewhere on its way.
In 1982 that wasn't a match fix - it didn't need to be; in the last game Germany needed to win, Austria needed to avoid a 3-goal defeat, and once Germany was 1-0 up both teams stopped playing because both achieved their goal. That was ungentlemanly conduct and bored the pants of the spectators, but it was not a fix.
> But the worst thing about it is their sheer arrogance (which
> Martin O'Neil touched on last night), epitomised in
> BILD-Zeitung at the start of the tournament, with a
> photoshopped picture of Ballack on the front page holding the
> trophy in his arms and the headline (translated): "To the
> Opposition - This is ours. You can look, but don't touch. This
> is for us".
Well, the Bild-Zeitung is often a source for national embarrassment, after all it's a tabloid.
That particular form of arrogance though is a down to differences between the UK and Germany in judging where confidence ends and arrogance begins. Germany was regarded as pre-tournament favourites (e.g. by the bookies), and that headline simply reflected that - in Germany that would therefore not raise an eyebrow. Showing humility in that situation would be regarded as a defeatist attitude.
It's not dissimilar to the confidence displayed by Michael Schumacher a few years ago, which also lead to him being described as arrogant: well, he was - by British standards, but not by German standards. That does not mean that people get away with everything in Germany, e.g. Uli Hoeness (general manager of Bayern Munich; the wanker who missed that penalty in the Euro 1976 final) is widely regarded as a piece of arrogant vomit. The fine difference is that Hoeness goes beyond showing confidence by disregarding opponents as unimportant, along the lines of "you can count your lucky stars that you are allowed to play (&lose) against us".
> I still say that their record over the years flatters them
> greatly and that they're the luckiest team of all time. I mean
> - four tournament final appearances on the back of penalty
> shootouts ('82 / '86 / '90 / '96) and one blatant match fix
> that FIFA lacked the balls to do anything about ('82).
Well, in '86 the penaly shootout was in the quarterfinals, and within altogether 13 reached finals by Germany it's not too surprising that 4 had a penalty shoot-out somewhere on its way.
In 1982 that wasn't a match fix - it didn't need to be; in the last game Germany needed to win, Austria needed to avoid a 3-goal defeat, and once Germany was 1-0 up both teams stopped playing because both achieved their goal. That was ungentlemanly conduct and bored the pants of the spectators, but it was not a fix.
> But the worst thing about it is their sheer arrogance (which
> Martin O'Neil touched on last night), epitomised in
> BILD-Zeitung at the start of the tournament, with a
> photoshopped picture of Ballack on the front page holding the
> trophy in his arms and the headline (translated): "To the
> Opposition - This is ours. You can look, but don't touch. This
> is for us".
Well, the Bild-Zeitung is often a source for national embarrassment, after all it's a tabloid.
That particular form of arrogance though is a down to differences between the UK and Germany in judging where confidence ends and arrogance begins. Germany was regarded as pre-tournament favourites (e.g. by the bookies), and that headline simply reflected that - in Germany that would therefore not raise an eyebrow. Showing humility in that situation would be regarded as a defeatist attitude.
It's not dissimilar to the confidence displayed by Michael Schumacher a few years ago, which also lead to him being described as arrogant: well, he was - by British standards, but not by German standards. That does not mean that people get away with everything in Germany, e.g. Uli Hoeness (general manager of Bayern Munich; the wanker who missed that penalty in the Euro 1976 final) is widely regarded as a piece of arrogant vomit. The fine difference is that Hoeness goes beyond showing confidence by disregarding opponents as unimportant, along the lines of "you can count your lucky stars that you are allowed to play (&lose) against us".