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The Terrrence Higgins Trust are a great organisation..we done an HIV course with them years ago, i suppose they might not have been interested because they are there for the mainstream. To them we are crazy...bed hopping with different partners etc so if we caught something it would only be a matter of time really, they have enough unlucky people catching HIV that we must look totally irresponsible.
Thay were bad enough with us & we use condoms with certs so bareback porn to them is like mountain climbing without ropes, Terry is right about the Amateur & Pro industry because the Amateurs mainly use condoms (most with certs) & to us (me & john) the Pro industry is just to high risk doing bareback porn, we use couples & swingers where condoms are the norm if third parties are involved but until porn is condoms only we will have to work with our own networks where we feel safe.

Kim

P.S. Remember certs are only good on the day of the test...so for you own sakes help reduce the risks to you & your fellow actors with condoms, not the sort of advice most of you want to hear but it makes sense so think about it...

Is this not a good opportunity then Terry for the industry to unite and set something up for ourselves?

I know I'm banging on a different drum to everyone else, but if we producers got our arse into gear and did something proactive as a team, it would show the NHS and the general public that we can run our businesses professionally.

The one thing that worries me about a private company running this scheme is that if it goes wrong, it's our businesses at risk, it will push this industry back into the wilderness and I doubt if it would ever recover.

Er yeah its called UKAP James. We've been banging the drum on this and instigated sit downs and negotiations with clinics among a lot of other things. We've had meetings of which the last three have been the best ever and thats without the parties. If you really felt that strong about this then you would come to a meeting and see for yourself.

Thing is, and my point is proven here twice over that nothing gets acted on here on the BGAFD.

Not one thing (no offence to the mods)

UKAP have made inroads with this to no avail and the clinics decide to launch it on here like planting seeds in sand (no offence guys but its true)

This scheme was born from those meetings even if Clinic Express dont want to admit it but we know all the clinics who have emailed us to come to the meetings for presentations have listened to those recordings last year even if the public dont and im just glad those meetings were not in vain.

I just spoke to two industry main players today who dont read this forum much, if not at all and they were surprised it was finally happening in January.

Rather than flog a dead horse I will put my whinging aside to support it because it is the done thing to do.

The reason for letting producers know about it is because we employ a lot of models and can get the wrod out more effectively than posting on a fan forum. Plus we would have to know about it for it to be used because if it was left to the models they wouldnt even have got tests done anyway and we would all be in a world of steaming hot do- do then wouldnt you agree?

Just as an aside to this debacle James, where were the producers that bleated on about the BBFC Online scheme?

UKAP had front row seats with the likes of Strictly Broadband, GDBTV, Queensway and other company reps to fully understand how this worked.

You say lets unite and get together but we've been doing it for years and holding our own against everyone else who has trade associations serving the retail comunity and what not.

We also have parties to meet up with the performers and communicate this to them and book them for shoots.

The wheels of progress may move slow but they are moving.

First off I would like to start this post by thanking Chris for the amount of time and effort he has put into setting this system up. Secondly I would like to ask all the supporters not to feel disillusioned by the cynics and haters - many new ideas and developments throughout history were initially met with pessimism, but if there had not been a determined bunch pushing them on we may not today have keyhole surgery or anaethsetics.

I think a lot of people are comfortable with routine and are initially scared of anything new and perhaps more technical so this scheme may take time to win some people over....but by as many of us as possible supporting it and proving it is a success others will follow in time.

I envisage the number of cert fakers and therefore sti's will decrease, not over night of course but over time and the industry will wonder why it did not happen sooner.

The biggest concern the cynics appear to voice are the extra costs involved compared to a cheap NHS health service, and data protection. Compared to the potential risk of someone in the industry contracting and spreading HIV these issues seem paltry and trivial in comparison....can you put a price on your health? Perhaps some feel that HIV is just something that happens on tv and to other people but no one is immune. No matter how unlikely it may seem, no one is immune and we can either do as OEJ suggest and take responsibility for our health now or whinge in 20 years time that we were left infertile/ill by working in the sex industry because no one cared about our sexual health. I know which I'd rather do.

I will be supporting this scheme myself and urge other performs to do so. I am very impressed to hear that some of the producers will be offering a ?20 bonus to those who use the scheme. For a service that has just been set up this is a very positive step in the right direction and I personally thank those producers for their generosity and for lending their strength to something that is of little consequence to them, but will eventually be invaluable to many performers.

Despite the fact that this thread does not have 100% positive feedback (what ever does!) people are already talking about it and becoming passionate about the topic. I would be more concerned if it had slipped right off the front page into obscurity. So people are debating it and with fervor - this can only be a good thing!!

So whilst we are trialling and testing this exciting new development lets keep debating it and ironing out all the teething problems!

Kaz in Eutopia this would work, however in reality you can't assume that a certificate issued up to a month prior will give you safety from anything.

Ok model "A" tests clean on 1st of month, she the does 3 escorting jobs and a gangbang party in the fortnight after. Penetration is with condom, but she does oral without and allows the guys to come in her mouth.
(This seems a fairly common occurance, from what I see on the net)

Week 3 or 4, you are booked to work with her, for a hard girl/girl scene.

Would you ? and would you trust that nearly month old certificate that she is now disease free ?

What is the incubation period for various STD's ?

Chris, its bigger than that.

You are right in what you say. yes the tests are compromised on a first job and so far touch wood, no one has caught the H bomb yet

But lets anticipate the HIV, hepatits, syphillis were to occur. The sytem we have now is not relaible in terms of getting a full record of those who have been tested or even if there tests are even genuine.

People with HIV would just disappear and leave a trail of confusion. So if anyhting this is good in terms of isolating those and finding out all who performed with that infected person for an effective quarantine

Not to mention if someone came up positive it is easy to know immediately. The way it is right now know one would know anything.

Things tend to go from bad to worse in a chaos and I remember this well with the people that worked in the US over 5 years ago when there was an HIV outbreak.

And I bet it's a rip off money wise. How much is it?

Hi Chris I agree that no system is foolproof - except for becoming celibate, and it would be naive to be believe that tests/condoms are 100% reliable.

Having said that, there is evidence to suggest that the online certs system would be beneficial by reducing the numbers of fraudsters faking their certs, and therefore would help to further minimise the risk of the fakers transmitting an sti, and those who are certed - transmitting an infection unknowingly. Most of the damage is done when a party does not realise that he or she has transmitted an infection as they can pass it on to 10 or 20 people, then those pass it on and by the time it has been spotted it could have infected a couple of hundred people or more. That becomes a much scarier realisation if that sti happens to be the big one!

Of course online certs will not give performers immunity from infection, it is the sex industry and every time you perform with someone you take a risk. When an industry is shambolic with people faking certs that risk increases tenfold, but if enough people have similar goals we can make the industry a lot safer and make it a smaller, more calculated risk.

I have no problem with girls who do gangbangs or escort but I do wish people would be a bit more upfront about how far this goes. As far as I'm concerned if a performer allows an untested male to come in her mouth or anywhere else inside his/her body his/her cert is therefore invalid and they should not be working....however this is another issue entirely and not one that can be controlled entirly, except for regulating certs and perhaps setting out guidelines for good conduct.
I have to say it is something that concerns me. If I am doing just one girl-girl scene that month for say ?300 and I earn ?200 after expenses and reductions before tax, it does bother me that by sleeping with one girl I may be taking on the same risk as someone who has had sex with 50 men (who have cum inside their mouths and may not be certed) and x number of girls and earnt more like 4 or 5 grand. However that is my choice to shoot with that one girl and we must be realistic and realise that limiting our work does not remove all risk.

Despite working in the sex industry I think some performers can be dangerously naive and believe that they are less likely to contract an sti from oral sex. It can only be a positive thing that sexual health is being discussed and debated so freely, regardless of which stance each individual takes. For one - once sexual health becomes a subject open for discussion, and people are encouraged to think and speak about it, people have a tendency to be more open about it.

Secondly with such issues being at the forefront of people's minds, not only will they be better educated about their sexual health but it will also serve as a reminder[/br] (to many rather than all) to practice "safer" sex and to not take unnecessary risks.

As far as the incubation period for sti's go - I believe clamydia is around 10-12 days but anything up to 2 weeks, syphilis more like 3 and HIV can take up to 3 months to show! With this in mind it is easy to envisage the potential nightmare that could ensure if someone was faking their certs for even just a couple of weeks let alone on a long tern scale!

Supporting the scheme is a good start, but hopefully with that will come a greater understanding of sexual health and how performers can help to safeguard the health of themselves and others more effectively than at present.

Kaz brilliant reply, honest and well thought through, thank you.

I am really really for the scheme to be honest, I just think it dosen't hurt to
point out some of the short comings and pitfalls, as I honestly believe there are some people who believe that a test cert is a 100% guarentee that everything is roses.

Good Luck with this.