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The more I read your complaints the more I feel your pain dude.

I often wonder why you are not a member of UKAP or even AITA if you prefer as it seems you are up against the same problems as any other producer in the game.

I have a set of rules I live by which is why I dont have this problem any more.

The moment I get haggled for money or terms and conditions I cannot work with an invisible wall comes down and I make a polite excuse of "I cannot afford your rates" or "ok thanks for your time, the option is there if you change your mind" and many times they come back after a few months in the hope I have forgotten or because they really need the money and have been around for a while to soon learn its not about the tail wagging the dog.

I'm not impressed with the "great names" in porn they have worked with. Its all the same thing to me. I don't even see those "great names" as competition to me. We are all making a living doing this.

If they are smart they will work for everybody and the best usually do. If youve been around a while (which you have) it really doesnt mean anything. Youre either making a living from this or you are not.

If she prides herself on working within a certain category of producers then fine, leave her be. Plenty more deserving models who are willing to work with you and she probably wouldnt do anything better for the money anyway.

You could pay the going rate or you can pay over the odds and it would be the same thing. If you really play up to this it would only lead to disappointment anyway so why even go there?

To coin a term: Ditch the bitch !laugh!

Funny you two shoudl say that... I have actually received private emails agreeing with me... maybe I am the one brave enough to say it out loud, whilst others just agree...

Let's clarify this again... the model in question is slagging off "Amateur Photographers" her exact words were "They give proffessional photographers a bad name" do you agree with that Emma ? Please clarify your position on this ?

Do you feel Emma that Amateurs give the industry a bad name ? Do you feel Emma that Amateurs are a waste of time ? Please clarify ?

So yes if your going to bitch about Amateurs in the industry and your on my social media network I am probably going to comment... then cause I dont stroke the models ego she starts calling me names like some little 13 year old school kid ! lol... jokes

I love people who set these social forums up just to have their ego stroked... lol... they love the ass kissers who tell them daily they are beautiful and sexy... not sure what the motivation is there, maybe the mugs think they might get some...

But I tell it how it is... Amateur Photographers/Producers are the bread and butter of this industry... for those that dont see that I feel sorry for you all... there really isn't much work around, so carry on killing the industry WINNING...

Hey Emma good your sticking up for her... please clarify you share her opinions on Amateur Photographers please...

Great Post... thank you for showing some common sense I worked with a girl called Naomi back in the early 2000's... she worked for a lot of top Photographers... and I mean top !

I asked her if it got her down working with Amateurs after working with the big togs and she laughed... she told me she wouldn't be able to pay her bills id she just relied on the pro work... that 80% of her work was Amateurs (Bread and Butter as she called it) and the remaining 20% was the cream...

I find it totally disrespectful for someone to slag off the amateur guys who bring so much to this industry... to slag them off on her social media networks and say they give the industry a bad name ! Rude and Insulting... so anyone who wants to defend that shit go on...

Also again I will underline... I have seen her work... the concept that she says she only works with professionals is total BS, either that or her idea of proffessional is way off !

Mate we are definetly meeting up for a beer and a moan... when is the next meeting I will try and be there...

To be fair we have no issues getting models, like all the producers out there I am sure we've all experienced the flakes and the ones who think your a hero one minute and then zero the next... usually due to them regretting what they done and thinking everything can be removed at a click of their little fingers...

We shoot what we shoot... to be fair I was going to work with this model a age ago... something happened that meant it didn't happen, and in reflection boy am I glad it didn't... dodged a bullet there for sure !

Models are entitled to work with who ever they want, they are entitled to charge what ever rate they want... and if it matches what we are paying then the shoot will happen, if not then it wont...

We wont be working with this model EVER... as I said this wasn't about her working with us... this was about an individual openly belittling amateur photographers and suggesting they give this industry a bad name, to be frank the pros can do equally a good job at that...

The suggestion that any guy with a camera is a photographer/producer is what seemed to rile her up... well let's be fare any girl with a cunt can be a model ! We all have to start somewhere, the amateur who saves his wages up to shoot every couple of months to be is an important part of what makes this industry... any model who doesn't see that is going to be very limited with who she works with...

Anyways thanks for the support, as I said let's have a beer some time soon

I agree a lot of what has been said so far.
I been around a while now shall we say and seen em come... and seen em go just as fast.

Lost count of the time I been told "oh so and so will pay this" I just think ok good for you. Then see how long they stay in the industry.

anyone know where my remarks on this have gone?

A lot of the "...well Mr X pays this" girls fail to see there could be a variety of reason why Mr X can pay her 'that amount', including but not limited to:

1) He could just be a rich guy for whom this is a hobby of sorts, and thus not worried too much about his bottom line...maybe just hers. ha!

2) He shoots for 5 different sites, and arranges the shoot in a certain way that he can pay her a large amount and still walk away with a big profit for himself. It's not HIS money in the end. It's the money of Twistys, Karups etc etc etc that Mr X pays her and himself out of. The not so lucky gals/guys have to dip into their savings and then hope for a decent return. Mr X gets paid regardless...unless the client doesn't like the result of the shoot.

So paying the standard industry rate shouldn't be seen as a crime or the tog being a cheap bastard. Only if tog is really silly and wants to pay a model peanuts...and I mean peanuts.

Again Just a little clarity from the OP...

I have no issues with girls having their own prices, to be frank I prefer a girl to have her own modelling rates, and whether they are flexible on them is totally up to them...

This is a business, and to that end we do play the "how much you want" against the "how much you willing to pay" game... it's sales 101... now when it comes to my business yes I want to pay a fare day's rate... however I also want to get the product as cheap as I can, and sell it for as much as I can... as I said business 101.

I always view it like this, I have an idea of the price I want to pay, the model as a price she wants... and if we can meet somewhere in the middle then the shoot will happen... however I will repeat, my original comments had nothing to do with price... it had nothing to do with someone having the option to choose who they worked with...

It was about some one generally labelling "Amateur Photographers" under one big umbrella... saying they were bad for the industry and gave professional photographers a bad name... this is the dumbest (well amongst them) statements I have ever heard... and one I felt I had to remark on.

I had this model on my social media network due to the fact I did think that maybe we would work with her in the future... I had seen numerous posts she made almost daily "moaning" about shit in the industry... an example would be her constant rant about guys hitting on her... damn girl it's part of the industry, your a frekkin adult model ! Learn to deal with it like I am sure every girl in the industry as to, how you handle your fans is key, calling them perverts (even though some might like it) isn't the way...

So yeah anyways back on track lol... the whole "amateur photographer" bash just tipped it for me... I made a perfectly logical comment about it, and got abused... suddenly I became the bad guy lol... She went all defensive and acted like the victim... just cause I didn't stroke her ego... oh well "Defriend" is my friend

So girls please feel free to chose who you work with, please feel free to have your rates and work to them... you certainly wont here me bitch if we cant agree a price (well apart from that one girl who wanted ?500 a day for nude only, and compared my models to mini's whilst she was a rolls royce, that one did rile me a little lol!)

But please, Amateur Photographers are key to this industry, they really are the bread and butter... oh and so you all know, I include myself as a amateur... yes even after 11 years.

Amateur togs are the cornerstone of this business

Theonly time when I rattle amateur togs is when one stops out of line with disrespectful behaviour, paying a model an insulting rate then wanting extras.

Thats not an attack on the whole community of amateur togs but I think some of those I have upset in the past with my fire and brimstone rants weren't around when I was but a mere amateur myself.

I was told I was a professional by a variety of people who just didnt see me as amateur any more. Shame as I was on a good roll with that angle !laugh!

I only made my name by rep, being nice, paying a fair rate and being a fun guy to work for....Oh and the product werent too shabby I guess

Those kinds (amateur togs) are usually to be found in abundance its only the odd weirdo that gets under the net casts a shadow over the business.

Amateurs can distance themselves from that type and appear to be professional by attitude and approach to their work