Any honest webmasters?

[randyandy]

As someone who has done and is now doing another 6th month course I have to object to what is being said.

You will all know that learning front page & dreamweaver enables you to build perfectly good simple web sites.

What amazed me more while doing it was how simple it is to build them without using the html code (all the time) which as I've learnt from web designers is how the experts make their money (takes longer to do it that way)

HOWEVER and it's a big however what the courses don't teach is how to build them with all the protections rgb referred to and what I am pissed off about is that the dreamweaver course I am doing doesn't even show how to work with databases.

Because of that (and the protection stuff) I would never say I am a web designer even if I pass this latest exam, despite wanting to.

Please don't knock people who are trying to learn in my opinion it's the course and the people selling it who ARE causing the problem.

Rant over sorry it's so long.

[videokim]

Hi Marino

Use Matt as he does our site, honest as the days long and a brilliant webmaster. Ring Terry if you need any more references on him.

Kim xxx

http://www.kims-amateurs.com

[Cenobitez]

RandyAndy,

Databases are NOT dreamweaver objects, so not a suprise a dreamweaver course wouldnt touch on them, a dreamweaver course would primarily focus on getting the most out of the software with a secondary aim of teaching you basic html, and if its an advanced course maybe touch on CSS.

If you want to learn databases you need to do an SQL Course which many colleges do, but then that WONT teach you how to connect Dreamweaver to the SQL Server, it will however teach you how to construct basic SQL queries, which then you will need to learn the ins and outs and variations between the 3 or 4 main database types such as Protege SQL, MySql, MSSql, as they all have minor differences.

Then to connect your dreamweaver side to your SQL, you need to learn a scripting language, ASP, PHP, Perl, Python, PB, C, or any number of others.

Then you need to learn basic *nic commands to administer the server and debug your code and stuff.

So you got 6 courses you need to do there to learn the basics,

HTML, CSS, PHP, SQL, *nix, and then Software of choice, Now tell me how you can learn all that on a 6 month course ?


I have this convo 100% times and i simpy ask people how to center a flash file in the middle of the page, horizontally and vertically without looking it up ? not the code just explain the method, il bet ya most people cant even explain it, yet alone do it,

Half of the "webmasters" i spoke to cant even tell me which takes precedence, in-line css, imported or blocks at the top of the page, lots of them still use deprecated tags, alot dnt even change the page title from "untitled document" i goto pages and the title bar says "Blank" or "untitled document", lots dont even know about meta tags.

I accept there are some out there, doing a good honest job, so for every 1 decent one there are 20 shit ones ripping people off, offering the world and delivering the moon one of my clients said.

[randyandy]

Cheers Cenobitez

On the course I am doing at this moment in time we are just being given the database we need to make our dreamweaver sites work, which is pathetic, a point I made with the college as soon as I found out.

I won't argue with what needs to be learnt but would say that it is possible to learn a lot in 6 month's. Not all obviously, but the basics.

Unfortunately the biggest problem I can see with the web design thing is that it is relatively easy to find answers to specific problems either on line or in books and I believe the problem most proper designers should have is with the people who create the how to things not with the people who want to learn how to do it.

One of the web designers I know has built sites for some very big companies and even he still refers to manuals he had while he was studying when he gets severe problems.

Manuals of a type I am certain you will have learned from to gain your knowledge.

I've made a note of everything you've said thanks for that, the tuition standards in adult education are crap but hopefully I'll get there in the end.

Can I also apologise to marino for taking up so much of his thread with stuff not related to his specific problem.

[Cenobitez]

Well at least your course touches on databases, once your able to connect and query the database your 1/3 of the way there.

Majority of programmers i know have a selection of books for reference, only they are not like "HTML for Idiots" or "Websites for Dummies" (both real books by the way.

They are quick references, glossaries, or comparisons type books.

For example Connecting to a Database

Connecting to an Informix Database

$connect = ifx_connect("$dbname@dbhost", $dbusername, $dbpassword);

or Connecting to MySQL

$connect = mysql_connect($dbhost, $dbuser, $dbpass);

so both slightly different, odds are if you use MySQL )like say 40% of people do, maybe 40% use MSSql and the other 20% use the others, just statistics based on my experience), most of the time, then other methods are not going to be in your mind.

However to check the connection was successful

if (!$connect) {
die("Couldnt Create a Connection to WhateverDB");
}

Is the same regardless, there are loads of little differences like that with each version of SQL Databases, one of the more confusing is in recent times, MySQL 4.1 has introduces lots of updates like changing MySQL to MySQLi for added functionality, so the aboves NEW version is

$connect = mysqli_connect($dbhost, $dbuser, $dbpass);

Your not always going to remember the operator precedence, so building yourself a good set of books will help you enormously.

Also look into spending a a chunk of cash and investing in Zend Studio (is you use php) its built in debugging tools rock, its like the hardened coders version of dreamweaver, for all you geeks i said hard hardened coders not purist using vi or notepad

[Joe A]

The biggest problem with most web designers.. They think too much about the product and not the surfer.... Too much use of "Flash" etc. not everyone wants to wait for ever, even with DSL, for a front page to open..

The answer is K.I.S.S. = Keep it Simple and Sweet for the surfers...

[Matt - A-W-D]

Joe A wrote:

> The biggest problem with most web designers.. They think too
> much about the product and not the surfer.... Too much use of
> "Flash" etc. not everyone wants to wait for ever, even with
> DSL, for a front page to open..
>
> The answer is K.I.S.S. = Keep it Simple and Sweet for the
> surfers...


Well said mate. I know very few people who have done the courses and most are making decent money.
The ones with the qualifications tend to charge outrageous prices and in turn struggle to get work.
Lets not forget forget that a Dreamweaver/html course teaches you nothing about editing video for web, building traffic, image manipulation, or creating graphics to be sliced/optimised, server basics etc etc.
Dreamweaver/html only accounts for around a third of what goes into making a "porn" site.
Building the site is the easy bit...

[rgb]

function SelectWebmaster()

{
if (CCBill$$$$>(CSS&&HTML&&JS));
AdultWebMaster()
}

else {

MainstreamWebMaster();

}

or in English: use a bloke who knows how to get punters to get their credit cards out...

[BillBXD]

Blimey it must be Christmas because I'm agreeing with Joe A!

Joe is right the surfer has no interest in clever techiedoo flashing whizzabang bollocks or how many courses the guy that built the site has been on or how respected in the university of bull shite a web bod is.

All thats wanted is click and load and if its the right bird for them they'll enter the magic numbers never knowing who created the site or how many ding dang gonads he's got or many htm's in a psql with a perl topping.

If a wheel is round it'll always turn

Bill (BXD)

[randyandy]

you know I often wondered why the site designer never listed his name and qualifications on the home page after doing it !boring!

Talk about stating the obvious 'the surfer has no interest in clever techiedoo
flashing whizzabang bollocks'

I think the discussion Cenobitez and I were having has been lost in translation. We were on about the people wanting the site built not the people visiting them.