Re: S. Rechmeier's Lexikon des deutschen Erotikfil
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:09 pm
mark shanon wrote:
> when did it start to separate? I suspect it was well before
> 1986. so many later movies should not have made it in the book,
It wasn't well before 1986. They had been drifting apart before,
but the process was really completed in the mid 1980s when films
were clearly made for Video, using the Video medium.
The completion is really evident with the VTO pics.
I'd say there were two phases when porn broke off.
One was about 1979-1981 when productions got visibly smaller, the other
1983-1985 when the medium itself was transformed.
> if R.'s intention was to include only those with a larger
> audience and a certain "social" visibility. Am I wrong?
I think that's probably correct.
> Indirect proof of that is that, assuming R. and you
> were right, then the german production would have been much
> inferior both to the french and the italian ones: which is
But it is inferior to the French production, very very much so. It is so much
easier to get hold of a half-decent French porn flick of that period that has been dubbed into German than of a half-decent orginal German one.
I don't know the Italian scene well enough to make a judgment about that.
> improbable since Germany was the first of these nations to have
> already a well developed structure to produce porn when it was
> first legalized, as there was a well-developed loop production
> before legalization
I disagree. The majority of these loops are either post-legalisation
or Skandinavian-made. Hans Billian shot his porn loops in Sweden & Denmark before German legalisation. There were some loops produced beforehand, e.g. bondage, or version of softporn films but those were small fish.
> (and nowadays has the biggest release
> outside of the USA.)
Nowadays, but not back then.
One can simply look at the ads in porn mags: in the late 70s porn loops are advertised quite heavily, in the early 70s porn mags you have to search with a microscope. There are some references to Pam&Tam cinemas (or whatever they were called), and this is about it.
> >Edited together from porn loops from Imperial Film.
> >I wouldn't cover that either, the original porn films from
> Imperial perhaps...
>
> I mean the Brinkmann movie with Alban Ceray: it has some
> flashbacks, maybe culled, as you say, from other german
> productions (can't be more definite about this, you know more
> about it than me) but to me it looks like it stands on its own
> legs.
Meant the same film. Grabs material from 3 longish Imperial films, and puts them alongside material that may be new or is culled from somewhere else.
Still, this is sought after, because it is a rare example of early German porn of half-decent quality, even if it has been ripped from 3-4 other films. Recently I missed out on a copy on filmundo, because I was unwilling to put up more than 40 Euro for such a cutting-room product. But this shows how rare these films are, French films of that (and much better) quality are a dime a dozen.
> > or ?Le bambole di carne?
>
> >not sure which film that is...
>
> A moli movie.
That doesn't narrow it down much...
Could it possibly be "Die Masslosen"? [this is covered in the book]
> >BTW one Italian film took the credits of Rosemaries
> Schleckerland and >stuck them at the front of a completely
> different movie.
>
> It is to this last I was referring, not to the more famous one.
> yes, the titles were culled in italy from those of "Rosemarie"
> to distribute it without submitting it to the censure board,
> but the movie is german
I saw that film. I don't think it is German.
> "Popcorn und Himbeereis" is an absolute MUST, it is
> the most >important example of the subgenre.
>
> It seems like i'll have to find me a copy of this movie.
Easy to get hold of on DVD.
It is softcore, teeny T&A sex flick, but amongst those it's one of the better films, and better known films.
Has one really good sex scene in it where Bea Fiedler is pleasured
by her Disco-pull, and boy did I envy that bloke.
> I was in Germany in 1976, made the reeperbahn and loops were
> projected in the bars over there. and they came to my
> attention. (well, actually i was looking for them). i presume
> they came to the attention of all the people who consume porn.
Yes, but they were not really talked about, the way softporn flicks
were talked about. One big difference was that quite a few soft porn stars
achieved some fame on television, most notably Ingrid Steeger and
Elisabeth Volkmann, but also Christine Schuberth, Andrea Rau, Olivia Pascal, and a few others.
> but soft porn is still alive and well. Actually, I think the
> production is bigger now than ever.
Not in Germany.
In some of the years of the early 1970s more than half of the films released to the German cinema were sex films. There is a statistic about this somewhere in Anette Miersch's book which I don't recall out of the top of my head exactly, but it was along these lines.
> when did it start to separate? I suspect it was well before
> 1986. so many later movies should not have made it in the book,
It wasn't well before 1986. They had been drifting apart before,
but the process was really completed in the mid 1980s when films
were clearly made for Video, using the Video medium.
The completion is really evident with the VTO pics.
I'd say there were two phases when porn broke off.
One was about 1979-1981 when productions got visibly smaller, the other
1983-1985 when the medium itself was transformed.
> if R.'s intention was to include only those with a larger
> audience and a certain "social" visibility. Am I wrong?
I think that's probably correct.
> Indirect proof of that is that, assuming R. and you
> were right, then the german production would have been much
> inferior both to the french and the italian ones: which is
But it is inferior to the French production, very very much so. It is so much
easier to get hold of a half-decent French porn flick of that period that has been dubbed into German than of a half-decent orginal German one.
I don't know the Italian scene well enough to make a judgment about that.
> improbable since Germany was the first of these nations to have
> already a well developed structure to produce porn when it was
> first legalized, as there was a well-developed loop production
> before legalization
I disagree. The majority of these loops are either post-legalisation
or Skandinavian-made. Hans Billian shot his porn loops in Sweden & Denmark before German legalisation. There were some loops produced beforehand, e.g. bondage, or version of softporn films but those were small fish.
> (and nowadays has the biggest release
> outside of the USA.)
Nowadays, but not back then.
One can simply look at the ads in porn mags: in the late 70s porn loops are advertised quite heavily, in the early 70s porn mags you have to search with a microscope. There are some references to Pam&Tam cinemas (or whatever they were called), and this is about it.
> >Edited together from porn loops from Imperial Film.
> >I wouldn't cover that either, the original porn films from
> Imperial perhaps...
>
> I mean the Brinkmann movie with Alban Ceray: it has some
> flashbacks, maybe culled, as you say, from other german
> productions (can't be more definite about this, you know more
> about it than me) but to me it looks like it stands on its own
> legs.
Meant the same film. Grabs material from 3 longish Imperial films, and puts them alongside material that may be new or is culled from somewhere else.
Still, this is sought after, because it is a rare example of early German porn of half-decent quality, even if it has been ripped from 3-4 other films. Recently I missed out on a copy on filmundo, because I was unwilling to put up more than 40 Euro for such a cutting-room product. But this shows how rare these films are, French films of that (and much better) quality are a dime a dozen.
> > or ?Le bambole di carne?
>
> >not sure which film that is...
>
> A moli movie.
That doesn't narrow it down much...
Could it possibly be "Die Masslosen"? [this is covered in the book]
> >BTW one Italian film took the credits of Rosemaries
> Schleckerland and >stuck them at the front of a completely
> different movie.
>
> It is to this last I was referring, not to the more famous one.
> yes, the titles were culled in italy from those of "Rosemarie"
> to distribute it without submitting it to the censure board,
> but the movie is german
I saw that film. I don't think it is German.
> "Popcorn und Himbeereis" is an absolute MUST, it is
> the most >important example of the subgenre.
>
> It seems like i'll have to find me a copy of this movie.
Easy to get hold of on DVD.
It is softcore, teeny T&A sex flick, but amongst those it's one of the better films, and better known films.
Has one really good sex scene in it where Bea Fiedler is pleasured
by her Disco-pull, and boy did I envy that bloke.
> I was in Germany in 1976, made the reeperbahn and loops were
> projected in the bars over there. and they came to my
> attention. (well, actually i was looking for them). i presume
> they came to the attention of all the people who consume porn.
Yes, but they were not really talked about, the way softporn flicks
were talked about. One big difference was that quite a few soft porn stars
achieved some fame on television, most notably Ingrid Steeger and
Elisabeth Volkmann, but also Christine Schuberth, Andrea Rau, Olivia Pascal, and a few others.
> but soft porn is still alive and well. Actually, I think the
> production is bigger now than ever.
Not in Germany.
In some of the years of the early 1970s more than half of the films released to the German cinema were sex films. There is a statistic about this somewhere in Anette Miersch's book which I don't recall out of the top of my head exactly, but it was along these lines.