number 6 wrote:
> Yep roll on a tory / ukip coalition. Just don't be poor, sick
> or disabled , because life will be hell for you. It's hell
> now,but give Cameron a free run with his far right wing friends
> and the most vulnerable in society will be fucked.
Cameron ? far right? We must be living in a different country because as far as I can see Cameron is a typical liberal Blairite...
Could be interesting for the General Election...
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Essex Lad
"The manifesto things is a red herring. What does it matter what the 2010 manifesto said/didn't say? It's 2014 and the election is in 2015"
The manifesto in 2010 from UKIP is not a red herring. The point is that then they were still regarded as a fringe party. Now they have won the EU elections and taken their first Westminster seat. If they pull the same stunt, they will suffer electorally.
The problem that UKIP have is that they will have to have a stab at a serious manifesto or they will be slaughtered by the media. UKIP are a right wing party who have been trying to appeal to Tories and Labour supporters. I can't see the likes of Douglas Carswell supporting a manifesto strong on workers' rights for example.
I suspect the next UKIP manifesto will lean to the right and hopefully Labour supporters will wake up to the menace they represent.
"As for the Tories, Cameron strikes me as buffoonery personified
> in his dealings with the EU.
Really? You don't think that it's because he is totally pro-EU and doesn't want to leave?"
His buffoonery will force Cameron to lead the country out of the EU even though his starting position was as a supporter of the EU subject to changes.
"Would you really want to get into bed with the Liberals who have done so much harm in their dealings with the Tories?"
Lesser of two evils. I would rather have a Lab/Lib coalition than a Tory/Lib coalition. The Lib Dem leadership are scum but I suspect if they hold the balance of power it will be on a handful of seats. There may be other parties involved e.g the Greens.
The manifesto in 2010 from UKIP is not a red herring. The point is that then they were still regarded as a fringe party. Now they have won the EU elections and taken their first Westminster seat. If they pull the same stunt, they will suffer electorally.
The problem that UKIP have is that they will have to have a stab at a serious manifesto or they will be slaughtered by the media. UKIP are a right wing party who have been trying to appeal to Tories and Labour supporters. I can't see the likes of Douglas Carswell supporting a manifesto strong on workers' rights for example.
I suspect the next UKIP manifesto will lean to the right and hopefully Labour supporters will wake up to the menace they represent.
"As for the Tories, Cameron strikes me as buffoonery personified
> in his dealings with the EU.
Really? You don't think that it's because he is totally pro-EU and doesn't want to leave?"
His buffoonery will force Cameron to lead the country out of the EU even though his starting position was as a supporter of the EU subject to changes.
"Would you really want to get into bed with the Liberals who have done so much harm in their dealings with the Tories?"
Lesser of two evils. I would rather have a Lab/Lib coalition than a Tory/Lib coalition. The Lib Dem leadership are scum but I suspect if they hold the balance of power it will be on a handful of seats. There may be other parties involved e.g the Greens.
Re: Essex Lad
David Johnson wrote:
> "The manifesto things is a red herring. What does it matter
> what the 2010 manifesto said/didn't say? It's 2014 and the
> election is in 2015"
>
> The manifesto in 2010 from UKIP is not a red herring. The
> point is that then they were still regarded as a fringe party.
> Now they have won the EU elections and taken their first
> Westminster seat. If they pull the same stunt, they will
> suffer electorally.
It is a red herring. In any case, why would they "pull the same stunt"? Labour didn't rehash the 1983 manifesto in 1987.
>
> The problem that UKIP have is that they will have to have a
> stab at a serious manifesto or they will be slaughtered by the
> media.
Why is that a problem? The media has covered Ukip to a much greater extent than would be the case for most parties of their size - trying to point out the racists and the nutters and yet support for the party continues to grow.
UKIP are a right wing party who have been trying to
> appeal to Tories and Labour supporters.
And succeeding...
I can't see the likes
> of Douglas Carswell supporting a manifesto strong on workers'
> rights for example.
He is a very popular constituency MP presumably because his constituents like what he stands. Not everyone in Clacton is to the right of Alan Clark.
>
> I suspect the next UKIP manifesto will lean to the right and
> hopefully Labour supporters will wake up to the menace they
> represent.
Possibly it will. The biggest problem seen by many is immigration ? whether the "figures" bear it out or not ? the people most harmed by immigration are Labour supporters in manual, unskilled, blue collar jobs so I wouldn't be too quick to say Labour supporters will see the light.
>
> "As for the Tories, Cameron strikes me as buffoonery
> personified
> > in his dealings with the EU.
>
> Really? You don't think that it's because he is totally pro-EU
> and doesn't want to leave?"
>
> His buffoonery will force Cameron to lead the country out of
> the EU even though his starting position was as a supporter of
> the EU subject to changes.
I think his starting position was a supporter of the EU full stop. He was forced into saying he wanted changes to appease the Bill Cashes, Dan Hannans, Jacob Rees-Moggs et al in the party. He'd be happy to continue with the status quo.
>
> "Would you really want to get into bed with the Liberals who
> have done so much harm in their dealings with the Tories?"
>
> Lesser of two evils. I would rather have a Lab/Lib coalition
> than a Tory/Lib coalition. The Lib Dem leadership are scum but
> I suspect if they hold the balance of power it will be on a
> handful of seats. There may be other parties involved e.g the
> Greens.
Unlikely to be the Greens, I'd say. I don't hear or see much of a desire for a green agenda ? if anything the opposite, anti wind farms, pro-fracking and fed up with the high cost of energy.
> "The manifesto things is a red herring. What does it matter
> what the 2010 manifesto said/didn't say? It's 2014 and the
> election is in 2015"
>
> The manifesto in 2010 from UKIP is not a red herring. The
> point is that then they were still regarded as a fringe party.
> Now they have won the EU elections and taken their first
> Westminster seat. If they pull the same stunt, they will
> suffer electorally.
It is a red herring. In any case, why would they "pull the same stunt"? Labour didn't rehash the 1983 manifesto in 1987.
>
> The problem that UKIP have is that they will have to have a
> stab at a serious manifesto or they will be slaughtered by the
> media.
Why is that a problem? The media has covered Ukip to a much greater extent than would be the case for most parties of their size - trying to point out the racists and the nutters and yet support for the party continues to grow.
UKIP are a right wing party who have been trying to
> appeal to Tories and Labour supporters.
And succeeding...
I can't see the likes
> of Douglas Carswell supporting a manifesto strong on workers'
> rights for example.
He is a very popular constituency MP presumably because his constituents like what he stands. Not everyone in Clacton is to the right of Alan Clark.
>
> I suspect the next UKIP manifesto will lean to the right and
> hopefully Labour supporters will wake up to the menace they
> represent.
Possibly it will. The biggest problem seen by many is immigration ? whether the "figures" bear it out or not ? the people most harmed by immigration are Labour supporters in manual, unskilled, blue collar jobs so I wouldn't be too quick to say Labour supporters will see the light.
>
> "As for the Tories, Cameron strikes me as buffoonery
> personified
> > in his dealings with the EU.
>
> Really? You don't think that it's because he is totally pro-EU
> and doesn't want to leave?"
>
> His buffoonery will force Cameron to lead the country out of
> the EU even though his starting position was as a supporter of
> the EU subject to changes.
I think his starting position was a supporter of the EU full stop. He was forced into saying he wanted changes to appease the Bill Cashes, Dan Hannans, Jacob Rees-Moggs et al in the party. He'd be happy to continue with the status quo.
>
> "Would you really want to get into bed with the Liberals who
> have done so much harm in their dealings with the Tories?"
>
> Lesser of two evils. I would rather have a Lab/Lib coalition
> than a Tory/Lib coalition. The Lib Dem leadership are scum but
> I suspect if they hold the balance of power it will be on a
> handful of seats. There may be other parties involved e.g the
> Greens.
Unlikely to be the Greens, I'd say. I don't hear or see much of a desire for a green agenda ? if anything the opposite, anti wind farms, pro-fracking and fed up with the high cost of energy.
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alicia_fan_uk
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
I've just noted various polls/press reports suggesting UKIP will land 4 to 6 seats in May 2015. Am I missing something, given the relative media coverage UKIP is receiving?
The DUP, SNP and Sinn Fein have this number of seats already. And the polls suggest the SNP will multiply its presence many times over after May 2015. So what makes Nigel Farage a nailed-on participant in the Leadership debates? Surely there need to be reasons beyond his personality/entertainment value?
The DUP, SNP and Sinn Fein have this number of seats already. And the polls suggest the SNP will multiply its presence many times over after May 2015. So what makes Nigel Farage a nailed-on participant in the Leadership debates? Surely there need to be reasons beyond his personality/entertainment value?
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Alicia fan
"I've just noted various polls/press reports suggesting UKIP will land 4 to 6 seats in May 2015. Am I missing something, given the relative media coverage UKIP is receiving?"
Yes. Setting aside what the polls may or may not state, what is much more relevant is what UKIP has achieved recently.
They won the elections to the European parliament, the first time in a century that a party other than the Tories or Labour had won a national election overall.
In Clacton, UKIP had the biggest increase in the share of the vote for any party in any by-election in history.
Yes. Setting aside what the polls may or may not state, what is much more relevant is what UKIP has achieved recently.
They won the elections to the European parliament, the first time in a century that a party other than the Tories or Labour had won a national election overall.
In Clacton, UKIP had the biggest increase in the share of the vote for any party in any by-election in history.
Re: Alicia fan
When the greens start getting the coverage they deserve they will be as bigger force as UKIP. A real left wing party without the headbangers.
Re: Alicia fan
Never gonna happen. While ugly wind turbines blight the countryside, there will be no appetite for a green agenda.
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Arginald Valleywater
- Posts: 4288
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Alicia fan
Be careful what you wish for. Ask the good citizens of Brighton what they think of the Greens. Plus you will taxed to death for the temerity of running a car, bath, tv etc and only allowed to eat Mung Beans and Spinach....hang on all the farting will power the turbine in your back garden....
Re: Could be interesting for the General Election...
"the good citizens of Brighton are only allowed to eat Mung Beans and Spinach"
What have you been smoking?
What have you been smoking?