You could use similar arguments against Will Pooley, the British nurse who went out to help ebola patients and ended up getting the disease himself.
And all the Medecin Sans Frontieres people who provide medical support to the wretched and suffering throughout the world who have got no-one else to turn to.
And all the aid workers who go to war zones to distribute aid to those who have no food, water etc.
You could say to all these people "Stay at home, drink cocoa and watch the tele." Thank God there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who have the guts and humanity to weigh up the risks and think I can still provide help.
All power to them.
The death of Alan Henning
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Andy
You have a point that these aid workers do have a responsibility for their own lives, but if there were more Alan Hennings in this world it would be a better place.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: Argie
David Johnson wrote:
> You could use similar arguments against Will Pooley, the
> British nurse who went out to help ebola patients and ended up
> getting the disease himself.
No you couldn't. As far as I'm aware there are no dangers of losing your head in that part of Africa.
>
> And all the Medecin Sans Frontieres people who provide medical
> support to the wretched and suffering throughout the world who
> have got no one else to turn to.
>
> And all the aid workers who go to war zones to distribute aid
> to those who have no food, water etc.
>
> You could say to all these people "Stay at home, drink cocoa
> and watch the tele." Thank God there are hundreds of thousands
> of people out there who have the guts and humanity to weigh up
> the risks and think I can still provide help.
>
There are not hundreds of thousands - that is a vast overestimation. I doubt there are more than a few thousand. You haven't said whether you think that if they get into trouble their governments should bail them out risking more lives.
In any case the aid agencies do not work in godforsaken areas out of the goodness of their hearts. They are exceptionally well paid. My former boss worked for one in Kabul after the fall of the Taliban and said the people who run aid agencies made the person who owned the company we worked for (a well-known tyrant publisher) seem like a saint.
> You could use similar arguments against Will Pooley, the
> British nurse who went out to help ebola patients and ended up
> getting the disease himself.
No you couldn't. As far as I'm aware there are no dangers of losing your head in that part of Africa.
>
> And all the Medecin Sans Frontieres people who provide medical
> support to the wretched and suffering throughout the world who
> have got no one else to turn to.
>
> And all the aid workers who go to war zones to distribute aid
> to those who have no food, water etc.
>
> You could say to all these people "Stay at home, drink cocoa
> and watch the tele." Thank God there are hundreds of thousands
> of people out there who have the guts and humanity to weigh up
> the risks and think I can still provide help.
>
There are not hundreds of thousands - that is a vast overestimation. I doubt there are more than a few thousand. You haven't said whether you think that if they get into trouble their governments should bail them out risking more lives.
In any case the aid agencies do not work in godforsaken areas out of the goodness of their hearts. They are exceptionally well paid. My former boss worked for one in Kabul after the fall of the Taliban and said the people who run aid agencies made the person who owned the company we worked for (a well-known tyrant publisher) seem like a saint.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Argie
"There are not hundreds of thousands - that is a vast overestimation. I doubt there are more than a few thousand."
I would agree that it is probably an overestimate on my part. My guess is that it is an underestimate on your part.
Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are making a fortune. My guess would be that surgeons working in say, African countries in a warzone would earn far, far more at home.
"You haven't said whether you think that if they get into trouble their governments should bail them out risking more lives."
In the case of Will Pooley I would agree with his evacuation to the UK.
You appear to be talking about hostage type situations. What is a safe area can often become an unsafe area literally overnight. So if it is an achievable objective to help then I would be in favour.
A British government military rescue of hostages hardly ever happens anyway because of the minimal chance of success.
I would agree that it is probably an overestimate on my part. My guess is that it is an underestimate on your part.
Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are making a fortune. My guess would be that surgeons working in say, African countries in a warzone would earn far, far more at home.
"You haven't said whether you think that if they get into trouble their governments should bail them out risking more lives."
In the case of Will Pooley I would agree with his evacuation to the UK.
You appear to be talking about hostage type situations. What is a safe area can often become an unsafe area literally overnight. So if it is an achievable objective to help then I would be in favour.
A British government military rescue of hostages hardly ever happens anyway because of the minimal chance of success.
Re: Argie
David Johnson wrote:
> "There are not hundreds of thousands - that is a vast
> overestimation. I doubt there are more than a few thousand."
>
> I would agree that it is probably an overestimate on my part.
> My guess is that it is an underestimate on your part.
>
> Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the
> doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are
> making a fortune. My guess would be that surgeons working in
> say, African countries in a warzone would earn far, far more at
> home.
I did mean the people who run them make a fortune not the drones. Bit like people working in banks in this country. The point remains valid though that the aid agencies are not there for altruistic reasons.
>
> "You haven't said whether you think that if they get into
> trouble their governments should bail them out risking more
> lives."
>
> In the case of Will Pooley I would agree with his evacuation to
> the UK.
>
> You appear to be talking about hostage type situations. What
> is a safe area can often become an unsafe area literally
> overnight. So if it is an achievable objective to help then I
> would be in favour.
That's true but if you are warned not to go to a specific country and still you go, should you be left to your fate?
>
> A British government military rescue of hostages hardly ever
> happens anyway because of the minimal chance of success.
Or any type of military rescue really, cf Jimmy Carter 1980.
> "There are not hundreds of thousands - that is a vast
> overestimation. I doubt there are more than a few thousand."
>
> I would agree that it is probably an overestimate on my part.
> My guess is that it is an underestimate on your part.
>
> Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the
> doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are
> making a fortune. My guess would be that surgeons working in
> say, African countries in a warzone would earn far, far more at
> home.
I did mean the people who run them make a fortune not the drones. Bit like people working in banks in this country. The point remains valid though that the aid agencies are not there for altruistic reasons.
>
> "You haven't said whether you think that if they get into
> trouble their governments should bail them out risking more
> lives."
>
> In the case of Will Pooley I would agree with his evacuation to
> the UK.
>
> You appear to be talking about hostage type situations. What
> is a safe area can often become an unsafe area literally
> overnight. So if it is an achievable objective to help then I
> would be in favour.
That's true but if you are warned not to go to a specific country and still you go, should you be left to your fate?
>
> A British government military rescue of hostages hardly ever
> happens anyway because of the minimal chance of success.
Or any type of military rescue really, cf Jimmy Carter 1980.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Essex Lad
"I did mean the people who run them make a fortune not the drones."
Clearly I was talking about a completely different bunch of people.
I find your description of the likes of Will Pooley and Alan Henning as "drones" extremely distasteful and insulting. I don't think what Alan Henning did in Syria was analogous to "working in a bank".
"That's true but if you are warned not to go to a specific country and still you go, should you be left to your fate?"
Not necessarily. And what happens next should depend on a risk assessment of whether help can be provided.
Clearly I was talking about a completely different bunch of people.
I find your description of the likes of Will Pooley and Alan Henning as "drones" extremely distasteful and insulting. I don't think what Alan Henning did in Syria was analogous to "working in a bank".
"That's true but if you are warned not to go to a specific country and still you go, should you be left to your fate?"
Not necessarily. And what happens next should depend on a risk assessment of whether help can be provided.
Re: Essex Lad
And once again you wilfully misunderstand what I said.
Where did I describe Alan Hennings or Will Pooley as drones? Or compare them to bank workers?
Where did I describe Alan Hennings or Will Pooley as drones? Or compare them to bank workers?
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
"once again you wilfully misunderstand what I said.
Where did I describe Alan Hennings or Will Pooley as drones? Or compare them to bank workers?"
Well, the thread is about Alan Henning and other aid workers who put themselves in potential danger to help others.
In response to my post which contains the following:
"You could use similar arguments against Will Pooley, the British nurse who went out to help ebola patients and ended up getting the disease himself.
And all the Medecin Sans Frontieres people who provide medical support to the wretched and suffering throughout the world who have got no-one else to turn to. And all the aid workers who go to war zones to distribute aid to those who have no food, water etc.
you reply "In any case the aid agencies do not work in godforsaken areas out of the goodness of their hearts. They are exceptionally well paid"
WHen I then state "Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the
> doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are
> making a fortune." In other words I am talking about all the aid workers on the ground such as Pooley and Henning. That is implicit throughout the thread.
You reply " did mean the people who run them make a fortune not the drones. Bit like people working in banks in this country"
How else am I supposed to interprete your post?
If you want to have a good old moan about the bosses of aid agencies, why not start your own thread? It has nothing whatsoever to do with my thread which praises the bravery of the like of Pooley and Henning.
Where did I describe Alan Hennings or Will Pooley as drones? Or compare them to bank workers?"
Well, the thread is about Alan Henning and other aid workers who put themselves in potential danger to help others.
In response to my post which contains the following:
"You could use similar arguments against Will Pooley, the British nurse who went out to help ebola patients and ended up getting the disease himself.
And all the Medecin Sans Frontieres people who provide medical support to the wretched and suffering throughout the world who have got no-one else to turn to. And all the aid workers who go to war zones to distribute aid to those who have no food, water etc.
you reply "In any case the aid agencies do not work in godforsaken areas out of the goodness of their hearts. They are exceptionally well paid"
WHen I then state "Anyway I doubt if the likes of Will Pooley and the
> doctors/surgeons working for Medecins Sans Frontieres are
> making a fortune." In other words I am talking about all the aid workers on the ground such as Pooley and Henning. That is implicit throughout the thread.
You reply " did mean the people who run them make a fortune not the drones. Bit like people working in banks in this country"
How else am I supposed to interprete your post?
If you want to have a good old moan about the bosses of aid agencies, why not start your own thread? It has nothing whatsoever to do with my thread which praises the bravery of the like of Pooley and Henning.
Re: Essex Lad
As far as I am aware Alan Henning was working with a Muslim charity not an aid agency.
I can't comment on Will Pooley because I've never heard of him so don't know his situation.
I couldn't give a stuff about how much aid agencies bosses earn. I'm just saying they don't send people to areas for altruistic reasons.
I can't comment on Will Pooley because I've never heard of him so don't know his situation.
I couldn't give a stuff about how much aid agencies bosses earn. I'm just saying they don't send people to areas for altruistic reasons.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
So who were you referring to in your use of the word "drones"?
Aid agencies are charities in the overwhelming number of cases e.g. the Red Cross, Christian Aid etc etc. Charities provide aid and therefore can and are just as easily be described as aid agencies. It is an artificial division.
"As far as I am aware Alan Henning was working with a Muslim charity not an aid agency."
Alan Henning, was driving an ambulance for Rochdale Aid 4 Syria, which raised money on behalf of Al-Fatiha Global, a British-based organisation which provides humanitarian aid to those caught up in warzones. It has charitable status.
" I can't comment on Will Pooley because I've never heard of him so don't know his situation."
He worked for a small hospice charity that provides medical aid
" I couldn't give a stuff about how much aid agencies bosses earn. I'm just saying they don't send people to areas for altruistic reasons".
Then why mention it in a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with the bosses of aid agencies and was about the bravery of people working on the ground in the "front line"?
Aid agencies are charities in the overwhelming number of cases e.g. the Red Cross, Christian Aid etc etc. Charities provide aid and therefore can and are just as easily be described as aid agencies. It is an artificial division.
"As far as I am aware Alan Henning was working with a Muslim charity not an aid agency."
Alan Henning, was driving an ambulance for Rochdale Aid 4 Syria, which raised money on behalf of Al-Fatiha Global, a British-based organisation which provides humanitarian aid to those caught up in warzones. It has charitable status.
" I can't comment on Will Pooley because I've never heard of him so don't know his situation."
He worked for a small hospice charity that provides medical aid
" I couldn't give a stuff about how much aid agencies bosses earn. I'm just saying they don't send people to areas for altruistic reasons".
Then why mention it in a thread which has absolutely nothing to do with the bosses of aid agencies and was about the bravery of people working on the ground in the "front line"?