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[quote]That still leaves 54% who regard themselves as "belonging" to a religion and 74.9% of people who have a religion.[/quote]

What are you talking about? You've totally missed my point. The difference is due to how the question is asked.

And the 54% who see themselves as religious includes all religions, which throws some doubt over the '58% consider themselves Christians' stat you quoted a few posts up.

If 54% belong to a religion/consider themselves religious, and if around 7.5% of the total follow other religions apart from Christianity that leaves a possible:

46.5% Christian
46% no religion
4.4% Muslim
3.1% other religions

Of the people who consider themselves Christian, it is estimated from 2011 census data that just over 62% are Anglican and around 13.5% of the Roman Catholic Church Of course, using census data may give false readings as to the way the question is asked -as I've already shown in my previous post- but while that affects the numbers, I don't think it would alter the Anglican/Catholic ratio to as large a degree, if at all.

What does this mean? Well, if you break up the Christians group into the two largest and most influential denominations, the make up of the UK census would be:

46% No religion
28.8% Anglican
11.4% Other Christians (Presbyterian/Methodist/other Protestant/Baptist etc)
6.3% Catholic
4.4% Muslim
3.1% Other religions (Hinduism, Buddhism etc)


Many of the figures above are from surveys as far back as 2009, so may have changes slightly (Muslims and Catholics have increased a little, Anglicans have decreased a little, and 'no religion' has increased a little). Yet my point is clear: if you break down the religious into their many different groups, the largest group in the UK is the non-religious.

Of course, the non-religious could also be broken up into Atheists, agnostics and humanists etc, but there is no solid data in which to do so as many who tick the 'no religion' box don't go into more detail. I doubt most give it much thought.

At the rate the 'no religion' box has been ticked over the decades, there will be more non-religious people than the whole total of religious people within a decade. And, as I say, of those that continue to tick the various religious boxes, it's estimated only around 20% of those are regular church goers. Most people who consider themselves Christians do so for traditional and cultural reasons rather than any deep-seated belief.

Mr Slater - you begin by making it pretty clear you have no time for the C of
E and your diatribe reads that you dislike organized religion. So be it. That's
fine with me - except that's your opinion, and those who put their faith in a
religion, be it the Anglican one, Roman Catholicism or even Islam, have an
equal right to their beliefs too. Well done Essex Lad ! Your take on the C of
E is spot-on. The Anglican Church has always been proud of its latitudinarianism
but its overdone today - they`ll go along with anyone - but a strong religious
faith is based on moral discipline, something Western secular society badly
needs if it ever hopes to combat militant Islam.

Seems you've caught Essex Lad's bug of replying to the wrong person. It's not rocket science.

[quote]Mr Slater - you begin by making it pretty clear you have no time for the C of
E and your diatribe reads that you dislike organized religion. So be it. That's
fine with me - except that's your opinion, and those who put their faith in a
religion, be it the Anglican one, Roman Catholicism or even Islam, have an
equal right to their beliefs too.[/quote]

And your point is? Where oh where, did I say, or imply, that people shouldn't have a right to their beliefs? What ARE you on about?

[quote]The Anglican Church has always been proud of its latitudinarianism
but its overdone today - they`ll go along with anyone[/quote]

I know.......fancy them trying to treat women equally. Outrageous, isn't it?

[quote]but a strong religious faith is based on moral discipline[/quote]

Morals evolve and change. What was considered moral 2000 years ago might not be seen that way today. The unwillingness to change along with the society you're serving/leeching isn't 'moral discipline', it's just obstinacy.

[quote]something Western secular society badly
needs if it ever hopes to combat militant Islam.[/quote]

"LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU." - You want moral discipline, you got it. Though, how you're going to fight militant Islam following this commandment is beyond me.

Sam Slater wrote:

> At the rate the 'no religion' box has been ticked over the
> decades, there will be more non-religious people than the whole
> total of religious people within a decade. And, as I say, of
> those that continue to tick the various religious boxes, it's
> estimated only around 20% of those are regular church goers.

Not if the birthrate among immigrants specifically Muslim and Roman Catholic tends to rise, it won't.

It is true that immigration brings in more religious people. Most immigrants tend to be more religious. But their children will be born here, educated here and grow up here. We often only concentrate on how immigrants affect and influence us while ignoring how just being here affects and influences them.

Immigrants will tend to become more secularised as the generations pass and up to now, even with taking into account all immigration from the 50s onwards, that box for 'no religion' makes up a larger percentage every census.

Immigration will slow down religion's decline, but I can't see it being reversed.

On a separate note, do you view the forums in flat view?

"Because it's unneeded discrimination and being an established church, some of my and your money goes in to paying for it."

In what ways does your money (Sam/Essex Lad) go towards paying for the C of E?

Tree view (I think. I mean I know how I view them, not sure of correct term.)
ddd
--ddd
----ddd
------ddd
Like that.

Then you have no excuse for replying to the wrong person !teacher!

In the absence of a reply from Mr. Slater to my question as to how we actually pay for the Cof E, I have found the following info.

1. The Church of England does not receive any direct government support.
2. The Church of England does receive funding to help repair the churches etc. it is responsible for. A huge number of Grade 1 listed buildings in Britain are church owned properties.
3. The Church of England is able to recoup money from gift aid donations which is why you see a lot of those envelopes knocking around with Gift Aid boxes. Gift Aid allows the church to reclaim the tax that you, the gift aid donor would otherwise pay in tax. It is a mechanism used by organisations which have charitable status.

I suspect Mr Slater is allowing his hatred of religion to carry him away. Not for the first time. The following statement is misleading in the sense that all organisations that have charitable status like Catholic churches can reclaim gift aid.

"It just stung more with the CofE being an established church that took our money, whether we were CofE or not."

I wasn't going to answer because a) I didn't know it did and b) I'm a Roman Catholic.