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And so did CockneyGeezer2009...

Then address cockneygeezer2009 with the correction, not me. You've twice brought it up in a reply to me, as if I'd said it. It's pretty simple to follow. If you want to reply to me, you reply to me. If you want to reply to Arg or cockneygeezer you reply to Arg and cockneygeezer.

It's genius when you think about it.

Well said Max. I would love to see an independent estimate on the value of the treasures in The Vatican and then ask why they are always pleading poverty? Vile people.

Arginald Valleywater wrote:

> Well said Max. I would love to see an independent estimate on
> the value of the treasures in The Vatican and then ask why they
> are always pleading poverty? Vile people.

When has the Vatican pleaded poverty?

Max, 1 in 10? What is the basis of this assertion?

It has been claimed that the reason the Catholic church demanded all their people be celibate was to make money. In the early days pretty much all senior clergy were married and they were usually rich too, when a person dies they usually leave their money, assets and so on, to their family - the Catholic church thought that if they introduced a rule of celibacy the rich senior figures would have no one to leave it to but the Church itself. This happened, and the Catholic church got richer and richer. It is now a multi-billion Euro/pound/dollar organisation. Religion and money, the two should never entwine but in the Catholic church the two are very closely associated.

From programmes I've seen and from things I've read, paedo priests is such a common thing in the Catholic church that it would be amazing if it was as low as 1 in 50 - probably odd if it was even as low as 1 in 10. Closed-off institutions have a culture and when a very large chunk of the people there are a certain thing the others there who are not that thing stand out amongst their colleagues. It's like housemasters in the English public school system who AREN'T into young boys, they will stand out amongst the other housemasters. Paedo priests is not occasional in the Catholic church but very common, it has apparently been rife in the Catholic church since at least the 4th century, that is over 1700 years. It is so much part of the culture that I don't know how they will rid the church of it - I doubt the senior figures really want to rid the church of it anyway, as so many of them are like that too.

'It has been claimed that the reason the Catholic church demanded all their people be celibate was to make money. In the early days pretty much all senior clergy were married and they were usually rich too, when a person dies they usually leave their money, assets and so on, to their family - the Catholic church thought that if they introduced a rule of celibacy the rich senior figures would have no one to leave it to but the Church itself'

Max could you reference me where you got your information from

I'm a catholic (not a very good catholic, in fact I've accept that I will be going to hell ... but I have my reasons for not being a good catholic)

I do study Catholicism for my projects ... however, I've never come across what you claim ... would be interested as another avenue of research for my projects.

Don't get me wrong I know the catholic church is rich beyond imagine and I know some of their priests have been disgusting beyond words.

But I've never seen anything in my research related to celibacy being a form of making money.

Wow !

I've heard that on TV and I've read it a few times aswell. Apparently at least 11 out of the 12 Apostles were married, possibly all 12 but certainly at least 11 of them. Most Pope's, Cardinals, Deacons, and other senior clergy many years ago were married too. They were just like other people in society, in other words people who would most likely get married and most of them did. The Catholic church introduced the celibacy rule, as I said earlier, so that these people - most if not all of whom were rich - would leave their cash and assets to the church. This worked, and the Catholic church became rich beyond imagination. It also became very powerful as a result of this wealth. The Catholic church was basically the first Mafia.

Jesus was also most likely married. It would have EXTREMELY unusual for a man of His age living in that time to have been a bachelor.