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"Rather than just pouring more money in, surely there should be root and branch reform? Otherwise you are just pouring money into a bottomless pit. The NHS was never designed to cope with a population of more than 60million and rising."

If the independent report is accurate and the NHS is the most efficient, well-run healthcare systems in the world in terms of value for money, then there should be no need for "root and branch reform".

THat has been one of the problems the NHS has had to put up with. Because of its iconic position in British society every single government that comes along seems to have to totally reform it whether the changes are needed or not.

Re. "never designed to cope with a population of more than 60 million" you could argue that it was never designed for substantially less given it came in existence 65 years ago or so.

However if you have an efficient organisation and structure then you can cope with increases in population demand provided that you put more money in for doctors, nurses and yes, in certain scenarios, management. The other risk is if you take the piss endlessly out of the staff by giving them real terms pay cuts to the point where they start leaving the profession they were expensively trained in and that puts a strain on the service.

That's their problem. You row your own boat in this life mate.

That's bollocks.

So, you're saying that, if you went out over the weekend and someone glassed you in the pub for no reason, it's your fault for not being able to hire a permanent bodyguard?

Shit happens. Life ain't fair, the sooner people realise it the better.

Yep........I've just realised how daft I'm being. You're right, cunty.

I mean, look at this story here:

The silly old cunt couldn't afford his own 24 hour security and got beaten to death in front of his wife. I've no sympathy for the twat. His wife deserves the nightmares she'll have from here on in too. Her fault for marrying the loser.

Shit really does happen and life really isn't fair. You got that right. If this daft codger had been rowing his own boat like you, he'd be in some expensive gated community and protected from the riffraff that beat him to death.

I just wish the burglars had filmed it so we could all enjoy it. Fuck him.

A truly shocking episode.

But as I say we don't live in a fair world. It never has been, and it never will be.

So this old guy deserves to be beaten to death?

David Johnson wrote:



>
> However if you have an efficient organisation and structure---WHICH WE DON'T---
> then you can cope with increases in population demand provided
> that you put more money in for doctors, nurses and yes, in
> certain scenarios, management. The other risk is if you take
> the piss endlessly out of the staff by giving them real terms
> pay cuts to the point where they start leaving the profession
> they were expensively trained in and that puts a strain on the
> service.---BUT AS WE ARE CONSTANTLY TOLD WITHOUT IMMIGRANTS THE NHS WOULD COLLAPSE SO THEY ARE NOT BEING EXPENSIVELY TRAINED. THEY ARE BEING POACHED.

Apologies for caps but the bold tags don't seem to work.

Sam Slater wrote:

> That doesn't answer my question.
>
> Surely the most important thing to all of us, regardless of
> social status, sex, race, sexuality or age, is our health.

Yes to us, not foreigners.
>
> Surely then, we, as a 'civilised society' can team up with
> other civilised societies and provide free healthcare across
> our borders for those that need it. What can be more civilised
> than that?

Because it's the National Health Service not the International Health Service.

>
> It's not like people purposely break there legs to take
> advantage of the NHS.....jeez.
>
Perhaps not but they do purposely come here to give birth and take advantage of the NHS, a system to which they have contributed not one brass farthing.

"However if you have an efficient organisation and structure---WHICH WE DON'T---"

Well that contradicts the report referenced in the beginning of the thread. Certainly not perfect, but more effective and efficient than the overwhelming majority of healthcare systems analysed.

"BUT AS WE ARE CONSTANTLY TOLD WITHOUT IMMIGRANTS THE NHS WOULD COLLAPSE SO THEY ARE NOT BEING EXPENSIVELY TRAINED. THEY ARE BEING POACHED"

This is far too much of a generalisation. Yes there are many immigrants in the NHS without which it would collapse. However there are a large number of expensively trained UK born nurses and doctors in the NHS as well..