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[quote]Yes, but because those words were spoken in English, he gets half the ban of someone who used colloqial yet less offensive words in Spanish. [/quote]

Not true. John Terry said the offensive words once. Suarez said the word 'negro' and 'negros' 7 times, hence the longer ban.

That may well be the case but Terry was then and still is, the captain of the team.

He has a responsibility to set an example, as set out in the FA's Respect program. He signed up to that.

He's fully aware of the 'Kick Racism Out Of Football' campaign etc,etc. having played all of his football with English clubs, 99.9% of which with Chelsea, he has absolutely no excuse for what he said.
Whereas Suarez had and tried to use, the feeble 'but that's the language we use in our country' argument.

Terry should have been punished far more than Suarez. Simple as that.

No, I think that would be discriminatory in itself. Being English, or a captain, shouldn't make a difference.

And Suarez' excuse was feeble. He used the word 'negro' when trading insults with a black man. The 'culture' argument doesn't work either as he'd been playing football in The Netherlands for 4 years before moving to England - another multi-cultural nation where calling black people 'negros' is frowned upon.

And, even if he was a newcomer straight from the streets of Montevideo, Liverpool FC have a responsibility to tell their players what is and isn't acceptable in the EPL. There is no excuse whatsoever.

The FA have lost the support of a lot of rank and file fans. Banter, no matter whether is it racist, homophobic or what is part of sport. Things get heated on a playing field and guess what some players really don't like eachother. At this rate the FA will want players to give a bunch of flowers to their opposition before each match.

"Banter, no matter whether is it racist, homophobic or what is part of sport."

Yes, who can forget when Jess Ennis called her competitors "black cunts" before the start of the heptathlon. And the Chinese divers calling Tom Daley a "white poofter".

It's all part of the wonderful world of sport.

A few points people seem to forget in all of this...

Regarding the Suarez/Evra incident. Evra made a complaint directly after the match saying Suarez had racially abused him several times during the course of the game. In this particular instance the aggrieved person actually heard what was being said (although, as I recall, no one else heard the abuse)

In the Ferdinand /Terry case, the aggrieved person DID NOT hear what was alleged to have been said. He only became aggrieved after his girlfriend showed him a YouTube feed on her mobile phone (and at this point I'd like to make clear that the footage shown on YouTube was the same footage that was later used in court which the lip readers said wasn't entirely clear what was being said). Now if court-appointed lip readers no doubt using using screens far bigger than those found on mobile phones can't tell exactly what is being said nor the context, how the hell can AF? And why didn't HE make the complaint? The ONE person who complained (which resulted in this year long farce) was an off-duty policeman in the QPR end who also saw the YouTube footage, not the alleged "victim"

There is a clause in the same FA rules that saw Terry being charged by the FA, for the FA to charge Anton Ferdinand with abusive language. AF admitted in court what he was saying to Terry in an attempt to wind him up. Why has AF not been charged, as he is clearly the instigator of this whole, unseemly, thing?

Although a Chelsea supporter, I'm not a great fan of Terry and wished we'd sold him when Man City came sniffing a few seasons ago (look at some of my previous posts and you'll see just how much I dislike him), HOWEVER, in this particular case I think he has been unfairly treated by the media, the FA and particularly, former black players with their own self-aggrandising agendas (Garth Crooks springs to mind immediately)

Should Terry have used the words "fucking black cunt"? No, of course not, not even in the context of saying "... are you saying I called you a fucking black cunt?" which has been his defence all along (Ferdinand's story, on the other hand, has changed somewhat over the months and I believe the court found him to be a less creditable witness than Terry), but given the whole context of the match (Chelsea had had 2 players sent off, there was massive goading of the Chelsea on the part of the QPR players as admitted by AF in court, and a hostile crowd) it's easy to see why a footballer (as opposed to, say, a Nobel laureate) would utter such words.

The FA should have dealt with the case far quicker, rather than leaving it to fester for a year, and, in my opinion, have come to the wrong verdict... indeed, having allowed things to fester so long, once Terry had been cleared in a court of law, that should have been the end of the matter. Instead, Terry will no doubt appeal (as he should) and the matter will continue to drag on.

FA = Fucking Arseholes!!!Lizard wrote:

I think your blue-tinted glasses are colouring your view, Bob.

[quote]In the Ferdinand /Terry case, the aggrieved person DID NOT hear what was alleged to have been said. He only became aggrieved after his girlfriend showed him a YouTube feed on her mobile phone (and at this point I'd like to make clear that the footage shown on YouTube was the same footage that was later used in court which the lip readers said wasn't entirely clear what was being said). Now if court-appointed lip readers no doubt using using screens far bigger than those found on mobile phones can't tell exactly what is being said nor the context, how the hell can AF? And why didn't HE make the complaint? The ONE person who complained (which resulted in this year long farce) was an off-duty policeman in the QPR end who also saw the YouTube footage, not the alleged "victim"[/quote]

This whole paragraph, quite frankly, stinks. Firstly you seem to criticise Anton Ferdinand for only getting aggrieved from youtube footage, put 'victim' in quotation marks and question why he wasn't the one that made the complaint. Wholly designed to question Anton Ferdinand's character and turn the tables on him when he's done absolutely fuck-all wrong.

Firstly, I think you give clues in your paragraph that could answer your question re Anton not complaining: he may not have been 100% sure from the poor quality footage shown on a mobile phone what was actually said. Maybe, it was only after an official complaint from an off duty policeman, did he think there may be more in this and wanted to find out if he'd been racially abused. That's perfectly understandable.

Secondly, who cares how bad the footage was? It was very clear what Terry said and the only thing that got him off in the legal court was part of the conversation directed at Anton Ferdinand was obscured by Ashley Cole walking passed the camera. Note: it wasn't the 'fucking black cunt' and Terry admitted using those words. Even a perfect HD shot wouldn't be able to tell the context of what was said and it was context and the doubt of intent that got Terry off legally.

[quote]There is a clause in the same FA rules that saw Terry being charged by the FA, for the FA to charge Anton Ferdinand with abusive language. AF admitted in court what he was saying to Terry in an attempt to wind him up. Why has AF not been charged, as he is clearly the instigator of this whole, unseemly, thing?
[/quote]

He may yet be, but given that normally a referee may only have produced a yellow card (or at worst a red for repeated offences), and given this language happens in every game then I don't think he'd get much of a punishment.

[quote]HOWEVER, in this particular case I think he has been unfairly treated by the media, the FA and particularly, former black players with their own self-aggrandising agendas (Garth Crooks springs to mind immediately)[/quote]

Ah, you mean former black players that DID have to put up with monkey-chants and all manner of racist abuse over their careers? The bastards!

[quote]Should Terry have used the words "fucking black cunt"? No, of course not, not even in the context of saying "... are you saying I called you a fucking black cunt?" which has been his defence all along (Ferdinand's story, on the other hand, has changed somewhat over the months and I believe the court found him to be a less creditable witness than Terry), but given the whole context of the match (Chelsea had had 2 players sent off, there was massive goading of the Chelsea on the part of the QPR players as admitted by AF in court, and a hostile crowd) it's easy to see why a footballer (as opposed to, say, a Nobel laureate) would utter such words.[/quote]

More nonsense designed to discredit Anton Ferdinand. He admitted saying those words to a black man during a trading of insults and wind-ups. As you rightly point out, he shouldn't have said it regardless and has admitted to saying it so I don't understand why you keep going on about it.

[quote]The FA should have dealt with the case far quicker, rather than leaving it to fester for a year, and, in my opinion, have come to the wrong verdict... indeed, having allowed things to fester so long, once Terry had been cleared in a court of law, that should have been the end of the matter. Instead, Terry will no doubt appeal (as he should) and the matter will continue to drag on.[/quote]

You're half right, here. The FA postponed any proceedings as they didn't want to jeopardise the legal case. Terry could have argued in court that a previous FA judgement of guilty could mean he wouldn't get a fair hearing legally. What the FA didn't expect was Chelsea FC persuading the law of our land to bow down to them and postpone the hearing until after the football season! So, if you're going to point fingers at the FA for letting things drag on then you have to also point the finger at your own football club as it was purely in their's and John Terry's interests to drag things out.

And, again, you're wrong about the verdict. He admitted using 'fucking black cunt' on a football field, directed at a black person and regardless of context that's an offence. It was the correct and only decision they could come to based on their own rules. To expect Terry to get off scott free after Suarez was banned for 8 games (racism), Barton 12 games (violent conduct) and Rooney 2 games (just for swearing at a camera), then I think it's about right. It's worse than just swearing, so more games than Rooney, but not repeated abuse like Suarez, so fewer than 8 games.

No Sam, not blue-tinted spectacles. As I said, Terry isn't a person I like, so why defend him other than I think the FA are wrong.

I don't recall seeing anywhere a rule that says that once one person has complained no-one else is allowed to complain, so why didn't Anton Ferdinand make a formal complaint at any time? Was it because it made it easier for him and his brother to feed the press stories of their great hurt, make snide comments about Terry, etc and generally whip up a media storm in the vain hope of getting Rio re-instated in the England team at Terry's expense?

Surely it's equally "racist" for AF to expect Ashley Cole to side with him because both are black and to then ignore him because Cole appeared as a defence witness for Terry. And what about Rio agreeing with the "choc ice" tweet?

One rule for one group of people and another rule for the rest.

The way black players were treated by crowds in the 70s onwards was despicable, but it doesn't give the right to people like Garth Crooks to twist the facts to serve their own agendas. Just to show how moronic Crooks is, he had Anton Ferdinand in his "team of the week" after the latest QPR v Chelsea game purely for playing! It was such a poor game from both sides that not ONE player deserved to get into a "top 200 performances for the day" list, yet Anton makes Garth's team of the day for avoiding shaking hands with Terry and Cole and managing to run around a bit for 90 minutes. Pathetic double standards.

Talking of double standards, I wonder what would have happened if it had been St Giggs instead of Lucifer made man in the form of Terry? We all know Terry shagged his ex team mate's girlfriend... except he didn't of course! Both parties have denied they ever had an affair. Yet Giggs, who seems to shag anything in a skirt, including his sister-in-law over a period of many years, can seemingly do no wrong. If he'd used the words "fucking black cunt" in whatever context, no doubt it would just have been a bit of harmless banter or a mis-interpretation of what was said from a great professional and we would have heard no more, especially as Rio wasn't after the job of captain of Wales!

Of course it is not discriminatory to punish him more than another team member, because he's Captain.

As Captain he does have certain extra responsibilities, incuding being a role model to his team mates. They look to him for leadership etc.
If he thinks it okay to run around spouting racist language, then how can anyone expect his younger, more impressionable, or indeed foreign team mates, to not do the same.
To quote Ben Parker in Spiderman..'with great power, comes great responsibility' !wink!

As an English football player, Terry has been surrounded by anti-racism campaigns all of his career. He's signed up to all of them. So again, with all that in mind, it is not discriminatory to punish him at least the same, or preferably more than Suarez.

Not sure why you repeated my point about the culture argument. I said it was feeble and that Suarez tried to use it.

I believe Suarez should've been punished, banned from however many matches and fined however much money.
My point is, that Terry should have, at the very least, been punished the same as him but as Captain, I believe it needs to be little bit higher.

Evra also admitted opening up the colourful discussion between himself and Suarez with... 'Your Sister's Pussy'.

It definitely doesn't warrant having racial abuse thrown back at him but if you go around shouting that kind of language, you'd better expect some equally ugly language back, or your face put through.